Sean Bell's Killers (NYC Cops) Walk

[KSig RC]

Seriously, guys - in a city of 8.2 million people and with a relatively high crime rate (compared to national averages), we can't use 5 to show any kind of endemic or systematic problem with law enforcement.

We'd likely be much better off focusing on each individual case on its own (de-)merits - work forward, instead of backward from a conclusion, as it seems much stronger in this sort of situation.

[DaemonSeid]

It's not about stats or averages...it's about that after the first time, incidents like these were not supposed to happen again.....8.2 million or 820,000...

Still something wrong with just 5...only FIVE in the same part of the country who dies in the same manner after facing off with cops!!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

It's not about stats or averages...it's about that after the first time, incidents like these were not supposed to happen again.....8.2 million or 820,000...

Still something wrong with just 5...only FIVE in the same part of the country who dies in the same manner after facing off with cops!!

This mantra of "ONE IS TOO MANY!" is kind of a strawman, though, isn't it?

The main issue is either:

1 - every person should be treated with dignity by police, including following standard and fair established police practices; or

2 - there is an endemic/systemic problem with the NYPD.

The "ONE IS TOO MANY!" mantra ONLY applies to number one, because in order to prove number two, you cannot ignore the "stats and averages" you've so derisively shooed away.

We don't know, for instance, whether police in Mobile, AL or DC or Vail, CO have the same problems, or whether this is random variation, or the same two dudes causing problems - instead, we should focus on issue number one.

To do otherwise invites those "stats and averages" into the discussion - and, as you've (indirectly) noted, those numbers do not bode well for change to issue number one.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

This mantra of "ONE IS TOO MANY!" is kind of a strawman, though, isn't it?

The main issue is either:

1 - every person should be treated with dignity by police, including following standard and fair established police practices; or

2 - there is an endemic/systemic problem with the NYPD.

The "ONE IS TOO MANY!" mantra ONLY applies to number one, because in order to prove number two, you cannot ignore the "stats and averages" you've so derisively shooed away.

We don't know, for instance, whether police in Mobile, AL or DC or Vail, CO have the same problems, or whether this is random variation, or the same two dudes causing problems - instead, we should focus on issue number one.

To do otherwise invites those "stats and averages" into the discussion - and, as you've (indirectly) noted, those numbers do not bode well for change to issue number one.

Not strawman at all...you get the stats on how many UNARMED people have died in a 10 year period in a hail of bullets by cops and let's compare notes....but all one has to do is use common sense to know this is not something that happens 'yearly' and we definently do not hear about this in the news...often enough were we can say....oh this is a regular occurance that goes on in other large metropolises...don't confuse that with people who get shot by cops either...we are talking about 5 circumstances that happened that for some God forsaken reason keeps happening in the SAME city...

At least 4 of the victims had no criminal records!!!

Damn I hate repeating myself....

[DSTCHAOS]

Unless this is entertaining you, Daemonseid, why waste your time explaining this stuff?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Unless this is entertaining you, Daemonseid, why waste your time explaining this stuff?

I just realized today I was repeating myself....hehehe...besides I was bored at work....heh