Gays in fraternites (pt. 2)

[shinerbock]

I can't tell if this is real or not.

But anyway, a couple of points:

1) Someone mentioned that you may get out in the real world and find that you do share interests with gay people. Yeah, I suspect that is true. However, being gay is a pretty big deal in that it impacts how you live your life, and often your ideology. It is similar to heritage or religion or any other aspect of life that touches on a lot of things. So yeah, there is probably a dude out there somewhere almost exactly like me, but gay. However, most aren't, and they're the exception rather than the rule. My fraternity is mostly Christian southern guys. I don't hate gay people, but most people wouldn't condone that lifestyle either. So the better question is, why are you so concerned with getting involved in something where you'd obviously feel out of place?

2) A fraternity is not a "we accept everyone" organization. I could give a damn if my fraternity reflects the exact diversity of my campus or city or state or the US. I simply don't care. I didn't join it to be a part of a microcosm of society, I joined it to be around people who share common interests and values. I didn't join it to be exposed to a range of differing viewpoints, I joined it because I get along with the people and considering I spent a ton of time around them, it was a great thing that we agreed on a lot.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

1) Someone mentioned that you may get out in the real world and find that you do share interests with gay people.

Actually, the point we were making is that you may get out in the real world and discover some of your brothers are gay.

I don't doubt that you would never vote to admit a gay member. Depending on your org you may be within your rights to do that, even. But there are gay members in elite southern fraternities who will come out after graduation. I've seen it many times.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Actually, the point we were making is that you may get out in the real world and discover some of your brothers are gay.

I don't doubt that you would never vote to admit a gay member. Depending on your org you may be within your rights to do that, even. But there are gay members in elite southern fraternities who will come out after graduation. I've seen it many times.

Yep and there are gay members of elite southern fraternities and sororities who are/were very out of the closet as an undergraduate.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Actually, the point we were making is that you may get out in the real world and discover some of your brothers are gay.

I don't doubt that you would never vote to admit a gay member. Depending on your org you may be within your rights to do that, even. But there are gay members in elite southern fraternities who will come out after graduation. I've seen it many times.

I have no idea what the "rights" are in my organization, but I don't recall that it ever made a difference.

I'm sure there are gay guys in southern fraternities. If I had a fraternity brother who turned out to be gay, would I suddenly hate him? No of course not (unless I hated him in the fraternity). But would I suddenly want to hang out with him and his boyfriend? No, I'd feel the same way I'd feel if he acted like that in undergrad.

I don't think gay people are a plague I can't be around, so it doesn't mean anything that someone in the closet was a normal brother. But an openly gay lifestyle clashes with the predominate values (and interests---girls) of my fraternity.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I have no idea what the "rights" are in my organization, but I don't recall that it ever made a difference.

I'm sure there are gay guys in southern fraternities. If I had a fraternity brother who turned out to be gay, would I suddenly hate him? No of course not (unless I hated him in the fraternity). But would I suddenly want to hang out with him and his boyfriend? No, I'd feel the same way I'd feel if he acted like that in undergrad.

I don't think gay people are a plague I can't be around, so it doesn't mean anything that someone in the closet was a normal brother. But an openly gay lifestyle clashes with the predominate values (and interests---girls) of my fraternity.

Shinerbock;
I do understand and respect your comment as your current POV on this board.
So please do not take this the wrong way.
I do have gay and lesbian friends. As I posted, a few of my Brothers came out after I graduated. And as my group of associates, acquaintances, and friends grow after school, I found that several of them were gay as well.
My fiancé has family and friends who are gay.
And they are not "making love" in front of me. We hang out. Any physical "action" is what you would see between friends. Or between team members on a football or baseball team. Or even a Fraternity.
And just as I have no need to say or indicate in anyway what takes place between my fiancé and I in private, neither do they.
Just something to think about.
BTB a wedding that I was truly honored to be invited, bear witness to, and participate in was the wedding of my fiancés best friend from grad school and his boyfriend.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Shinerbock;
I do understand and respect your comment as your current POV on this board.
So please do not take this the wrong way.
I do have gay and lesbian friends. As I posted, a few of my Brothers came out after I graduated. And as my group of associates, acquaintances, and friends grow after school, I found that several of them were gay as well.
My fiancé has family and friends who are gay.
And they are not "making love" in front of me. We hang out. Any physical "action" is what you would see between friends. Or between team members on a football or baseball team. Or even a Fraternity.
And just as I have no need to say or indicate in anyway what takes place between my fiancé and I in private, neither do they.
Just something to think about.
BTB a wedding that I was truly honored to be invited, bear witness to, and participate in was the wedding of my fiancés best friend from grad school and his boyfriend.

I thought it was pretty apparent that I'm well aware that gay people aren't affectionate with each other at all times. But what about when a guy in my fraternity gets a serious boyfriend? Are they just going to avoid the fraternity house? Doesn't seem like something they'd want to do. What about a date party? I'm not saying that gay acts are all that weirds me out, I'm saying gay relationships do. I don't look down on them because I find the participants inferior, they simply seem unnatural to me. I can be around people in a gay relationship if need be, but I'd really rather not.

Take a relatively calm (not overly affectionate) couple from my days in the fraternity. They're not constantly physical, but sometimes they might be, and that should be ok. But even more so, you can usually tell they're a couple even though they're not disgusting to be around, and two guys acting like a couple is simply awkward for most people I was in the fraternity with. It is weird to us in the fraternity, and I highly suspect it would be uncomfortable for the gay guy.

I'm sure you were honored to be a part of your friend's wedding. Actually, I'm sure they're probably both great individuals. But for me personally, it would have to be someone extremely dear to me for me to in any way participate. I'm not discounting the possibility, but I believe homosexuality is wrong, and therefore I'd be unlikely to participate in something like that. I of course would be concerned that my friend getting married/union-ed wouldn't respect that and it could cause problems, but he has his beliefs, and I have mine.

[jlenoconel]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I thought it was pretty apparent that I'm well aware that gay people aren't affectionate with each other at all times. But what about when a guy in my fraternity gets a serious boyfriend? Are they just going to avoid the fraternity house? Doesn't seem like something they'd want to do. What about a date party? I'm not saying that gay acts are all that weirds me out, I'm saying gay relationships do. I don't look down on them because I find the participants inferior, they simply seem unnatural to me. I can be around people in a gay relationship if need be, but I'd really rather not.

Take a relatively calm (not overly affectionate) couple from my days in the fraternity. They're not constantly physical, but sometimes they might be, and that should be ok. But even more so, you can usually tell they're a couple even though they're not disgusting to be around, and two guys acting like a couple is simply awkward for most people I was in the fraternity with. It is weird to us in the fraternity, and I highly suspect it would be uncomfortable for the gay guy.

I'm sure you were honored to be a part of your friend's wedding. Actually, I'm sure they're probably both great individuals. But for me personally, it would have to be someone extremely dear to me for me to in any way participate. I'm not discounting the possibility, but I believe homosexuality is wrong, and therefore I'd be unlikely to participate in something like that. I of course would be concerned that my friend getting married/union-ed wouldn't respect that and it could cause problems, but he has his beliefs, and I have mine.

I actually agree with the not bringing your boyfriend into the fraternity thing, but is it OK to bring your girlfriend in really? I am not condemning you for your response, just want to hear what you have to say?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by jlenoconel

I actually agree with the not bringing your boyfriend into the fraternity thing, but is it OK to bring your girlfriend in really? I am not condemning you for your response, just want to hear what you have to say?

I don't know, some people may be a lot more formalistic. I'm not talking about to chapter or other exclusively fraternity functions. I'm talking about sitting at the house and watching a game or going out with a bunch of brothers to the bar or to play golf. So sure, it is perfectly fine to bring a girlfriend to those functions. And I think it would be very awkward, for us and the gay person, if it was some unspoken rule that he can be in the fraternity, but he can't bring his S.O. around or out with us. Considering that may be a big part of his life, I have no idea why he'd want to join.