Hamas endorses Obama

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I said clearly we should address both issues, but we shouldn't strive to stop one issue as a reason for another. I don't want a society that has low crime simply because poverty has been eliminated. I want this country to have reduced crime resulting from society taking a stand which says there is absolutely no excuse for it.

Huh?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Huh?

Second sentence got sort of unwieldy.

Option A) Crime is reduced because of efforts made on the poverty front

Option B) Crime goes down because of a societal shift which places pressure on individuals to act responsibly.

I choose option B. Although I would take option A, being satisfied with that isn't enough because it addresses motivations instead of end results.

I care that people are poor. I don't care why they commit crime (I actually do, but not for the purpose of this discussion). I don't care that Cho got made fun of, I don't care that Denmark newspapers ran offensive cartoons. Regardless of alleged motivations, criminal end results are simply unacceptable.

I think we should work on both fronts, and I'm not arguing for a false dichotomy. I realize they're intertwined, but I'd like to see us work toward real solutions for each. Otherwise we end up with one real solution and one temporary solution which is bound for failure when some other stress-inducing catalyst develops.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Second sentence got sort of unwieldy.

Option A) Crime is reduced because of efforts made on the poverty front

Option B) Crime goes down because of a societal shift which places pressure on individuals to act responsibly.

I choose option B.

It isn't a matter of choice, though.

There is no predicting which crime prevention measure will actually make crime decrease. And there's no way of knowing that Option B works unless evaluations are conducted that determine that it was Option B instead of Option A and/or other factors (stronger family units, decreased structural inequalities, better schooling, etc.).

But like I said implementing a number of crime prevention and control measures provides a holistic approach. We just have to get tax payers to understand that these prevention measures are not free. Even holding individuals accountable through punishment and advancing family values and morality aren't free initiatives.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It isn't a matter of choice, though.

There is no predicting which crime prevention measure will actually make crime decrease. And there's no way of knowing that Option B works unless evaluations are conducted that determine that it was Option B instead of Option A and/or other factors (stronger family units, decreased structural inequalities, better schooling, etc.).

But like I said implementing a number of crime prevention and control measures provides a holistic approach. We just have to get tax payers to understand that these prevention measures are not free. Even holding individuals accountable through punishment and advancing family values and morality aren't free initiatives.

No, what works isn't a matter of choice. Societal attitude toward crime is, however.

Regardless of increased tax revenue, government action will never solve America's crime problem. I hope you don't think the awareness of taxpayers is the biggest obstacle to advances in this arena.