T-shirt club

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

That's insulting.

It's also ill informed and childish.

You don't have to be hazed to be a man.

Some would argue that real men don't take any crap from anyone.

Especially hazing.

Show your real manhood -- eliminate hazing.

Just because that's the way it's been in the past doesn't make it right.

If a 'real man' wants to join a fraternity then he probably wants to join the best fraternity at his campus. The one that has the biggest parties, best reputation, best alumni connections, nicest house, etc.

Yes he's going to need to make sacrifices, nothing worthwhile is ever gained without sacrifice.

If a man gets into Harvard and drops out to go to community college because Harvard was too hard, does that means he's a real man?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

If a man gets into Harvard and drops out to go to community college because Harvard was too hard, does that means he's a real man?

Yes. Perhaps not that studious or prepared for a 4 year University yet, but still a "real man" depending on what else he has going on and is looking forward to.

There are much greater things to accomplish than graduating from Harvard.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

Yes he's going to need to make sacrifices, nothing worthwhile is ever gained without sacrifice

I just don't think he should be willing to sacrifice his dignity or self-respect.

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I just don't think he should be willing to sacrifice his dignity or self-respect.

If I got a bid from a great fraternity and passed on it because I was too afraid of some push-ups then I would say I didn't have much in the way of self-respect in the first place.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

If I got a bid from a great fraternity and passed on it because I was too afraid of some push-ups then I would say I didn't have much in the way of self-respect in the first place.

So the fraternity that bids you will tell you that all you have to do is some push ups?

[SWTXBelle]

I wouldn't say push-ups are an affront to dignity or self-respect. I'm all for physical fitness.

But since you said this hypothetical pnm passed because of push-ups, at least it is obvious that it is discussed during recruitment. So yes, in that case, an informed choice could be made by a pnm. I wasn't aware that that sort of thing was discussed during recruitment, so color me impressed.

I was under the impression that hazing (and some activities that might be construed as hazing, some that might not) was not really discussed with pnm. I'd have to say that IF your "brotherhood building activities" could be discussed with pnm, or an advisor, or a university official, you are probably on the right track. I just don't know that you could do that with some activities that I am personally familiar with, or some I have been made aware of through other people and news reports.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

If a 'real man' wants to join a fraternity then he probably wants to join the best fraternity at his campus. The one that has the biggest parties, best reputation, best alumni connections, nicest house, etc.

Yes he's going to need to make sacrifices, nothing worthwhile is ever gained without sacrifice.

If a man gets into Harvard and drops out to go to community college because Harvard was too hard, does that means he's a real man?

To borrow something from the post above this one of yours:


Bull.

[moe.ron]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

If a man gets into Harvard and drops out to go to community college because Harvard was too hard, does that means he's a real man?

Depend what he does with his life afterward. The second richest man in the world dropped out of Harvard, didn't even finish college.