Obama tackles race anger in major speech

[PeppyGPhiB]

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

peppy...what do you think about Bill Richardson's endorsement ?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

I don't think it should be a primary focal point, but I do think it goes towards questionable judgment. Also, while I think the speech had some strong points, I think it was politically motivated and therefore shouldn't be celebrated either (some of the ideas and dialogue should be, perhaps).

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

In reality it is not a big deal. I also agree with Shinerbock that it affects Obama's better judgment. Why the media would make a big deal out of this lunacy is very interest.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

In reality it is not a big deal. I also agree with Shinerbock that it affects Obama's better judgment. Why the media would make a big deal out of this lunacy is very interest.

For some reason, a batshit crazy racist preacher, whose faithful includes a Presedential candidate for 20 years, yelling "God Damn America" from the pulpit among other things seems like it would be a pretty big deal in terms of media attention.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by macallan25

For some reason, a batshit crazy racist preacher, whose faithful includes a Presedential candidate for 20 years, yelling "God Damn America" from the pulpit among other things seems like it would be a pretty big deal in terms of media attention.

But mac sweetie,

There have been others batchit crazy racist preachers who have actually been presidential candidates that yell all kinds of craziness from the bully pulpit that don't get nearly as much media attention...

Besides, my question was how come the media NEEDED to amplify this kind of thing--other than being politically motivated?

Was what Rev RUN DMC Wright all that life altering for say, someone such as yourself? It is not going to change who you are going to vote for, really?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

But mac sweetie,

There have been others batchit crazy racist preachers who have actually been presidential candidates that yell all kinds of craziness from the bully pulpit that don't get nearly as much media attention...

Besides, my question was how come the media NEEDED to amplify this kind of thing--other than being politically motivated?

Was what Rev RUN DMC Wright all that life altering for say, someone such as yourself? It is not going to change who you are going to vote for, really?

Yeah I agree with you. No, what he said was certainly not life altering, at least to me. I will say though, as a white Presbyterian I certainly am not used to that kind of a church environment, so the shock and awe factor was definitely there haha. It's not going to change who I am going to vote for either.

As far as media attention, other than for political reasons, I honestly think the media was right for giving this some attention. I think people deserve to know that a potential President of our country has involved himself for two decades with a guy who obviously has some very questionable beliefs and some very questionable ways in which he goes about expressing those belief, regardless of the good that he as done. That goes for anyone in this type of situation, not just Obama. You have to admit, for some this was extremely disturbing and I have a feeling that it would anger a good deal of people if this came out after the elections were said and done with.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Yeah I agree with you. No, what he said was certainly not life altering, at least to me. I will say though, as a white Presbyterian I certainly am not used to that kind of a church environment, so the shock and awe factor was definitely there haha. It's not going to change who I am going to vote for either.

LOL: We Presbyterians of the Synod are not all that call and responsive... Not even Wesleyans...

How's your brackets going? How's the SEC doing?

[jen0830]

In 1982, the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine; Wright’s daughters serve as publisher and executive editor, Wright is CEO. Every year, the magazine makes awards in various categories. Last year, it gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it said, “Truly epitomized greatness”. That man is Louis Farrakhan.

Farrakhan is one of the country’s most bizarre, most repulsive, most openly racist, most offensive, public figures. Yet Obama’s minister lauded Farrakhan with an award for epitomizing greatness. Maybe for Wright, Obama, and some others, Farrakhan epitomizes greatness. For most Americans, Farrakhan epitomizes hatred, particularly in the form of anti-Semitism. Over the years, he has compiled an awesome record of offensive statements, including calling Anglo-Americans, “Blue-eyed Devils”. Wright’s comments are not theological views, but political statements. This is a serious issue for Obama in the general election. As with each new utterance on the topic of Reverend Wright, Obama confirms his own moral obliviousness and he seems to have disdain for those who are troubled by his own unwillingness to break with Wright.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

No.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Am I the only one who doesn't think this is at all a big deal? The race stuff, the pastor's comments, etc?

I have already posted a lot on this thread, but have been giving it much thought as well in recent days and your question gets to what has been foremost in my mind.

I think it is a very big deal, but not in the context of Obama.

In practical terms, I think this hurts him very much in a general election- but unfairly to an extent as I think my posts have indicated- but the fact it might hurt him gets to why I think Rev. Wright's comments are a very big deal.

The big deal is that Wright's comments are not all that rare and they expose an anger and sense of injustice in the African-American community that the rest of us rarely see and find hard to understand.

Obama is not guilty of a moral lack of judgement here. He is instead guilty of a strategic error in making his alignment with his church a huge part of how he expressed who he was. It was the same mistake Kerrey made when shrouding himself in the flag as a Vietnam veteran- though I would argue Kerrey did make poor moral decisions as well.

How many of you can tell me who Hillary or John McCain's pastors are? Doing things like this ties you to third parties and everything they may have said. It actually worked to Obama's favor, and I believe it was sincere on his part, but now it is coming back to haunt him.

But back to Wright- it is hard for people of my generation to understand the very real and justified feelings Wright was getting to with those comments of his. We were not around for Jim Crow. While the inequalities today are hard to miss, they are also not as starkly obvious plus many people- myself included- know a great many African-Americans who are financially and professionally successful and face just as much hatred from their bretheren for being "Toms" as they face from some white people whose brains stopped working in the 1950s.

I have tried to understand a lot of Wright's perspective- and I find the best place to look is recordings of old comedy routines. Sounds silly I know- but Redd Fox, Richard Pryor, LaWanda Page and Moms Mabley are 4 people whose words recorded in a different time have informed much of my attempt to understand why someone like Wright can be so incredibly divisive but also so right in certain ways.

The venue helps. A comedy show is there to make you laugh and so it is easier to listen to, laugh at- and then think about afterwards. Once someone makes you laugh, they can make you think.

But for people like me in my general background and age- to see a pastor express that same injustice in angry words is not only hard to comprehend, but it is downright frightening.

It is frightening because it is a rawer and purer form of the sheer anger that still lingers.

Worse still, one wonders how to deal with the underlying cause of the anger.

America's greatness is based on the notion that anyone can come here and excel. The American Dream is there for all.

It was there for the Chinese, Irish and Italians when they came over in the late 1800s to early 1900s. It was there for the Jews who came here in the first half of the twentieth century. And it is there for the many Mexican, Central American, South American, Asian and Middle Eastern people who come here today.

But it has NEVER been there in full spirit for native Americans or for African-Americans.

I think much of this has to do with how the collective general masses of "Americans" at given points interacted with these 2 groups. Native Americans were our fatal enemies, and African-Americans were our slaves.

And given how many other general ethnic groups have come here and eventually been able to assimilate- I have to think those initial interactions are the real key to what is wrong.

As much as I dislike what Wright had to say, the more I think about it- the more I think his words are important. And as someone who likes shock value more than most people, I have to appreciate his methods intellectually.

I still think Obama is caught in a bad strategic decision, but I have to admit that with regards to Reverend Wright my mind has been changed thank to this thread.

And yet the scary question still exists- where do we go from here?

I don't know the answer to that, but it is safe to say that guys like Sean Hannity talking about "Barack HUSSEIN Obama and his racist preacher" gets an A+ for ratings, but an F- for being of any real use whatsoever.

[AKA_Monet]

Sweetheart, I am so glad you posted this and have great courage to say what you think and how you think and feel.

Remember on GC we have several generations of GCers. Some who lived in a age that maybe your grandparents lived. Some who lived during, participated and died for change and some that are have never understood why strides were made.

You are a living witness now of that testament to history...


I broke up your statement and my comments to answer them there within:

Originally Posted by EE-BO

The big deal is that Wright's comments are not all that rare and they expose an anger and sense of injustice in the African-American community that the rest of us rarely see and find hard to understand.

How many of you can tell me who Hillary or John McCain's pastors are? Doing things like this ties you to third parties and everything they may have said. It actually worked to Obama's favor, and I believe it was sincere on his part, but now it is coming back to haunt him.

But back to Wright- it is hard for people of my generation to understand the very real and justified feelings Wright was getting to with those comments of his. We were not around for Jim Crow. While the inequalities today are hard to miss, they are also not as starkly obvious plus many people- myself included- know a great many African-Americans who are financially and professionally successful and face just as much hatred from their bretheren for being "Toms" as they face from some white people whose brains stopped working in the 1950s.

To tell you the truth, I never really knew young people such as yourself thought this way or felt this way... I did not grow up in a racial-identification free society. Your generation is probably one of the first that is the closest to that high moral idea. The one that MLK's Dream was really all about... The one where several Caucasian 1960's protesters are reawakening to who walked along side-by-side with African American protesters and other ethnic groups.

The issue is historical and centuries of outright bigotry passed on from generation to generation. Where the United States government sanctioned it and wars were fought against it. New immigrants in the early 20th determined that they would not live under it and either were absorbed into it or fought against it.

Originally Posted by EE-BO

I have tried to understand a lot of Wright's perspective- and I find the best place to look is recordings of old comedy routines. Sounds silly I know- but Redd Fox, Richard Pryor, LaWanda Page and Moms Mabley are 4 people whose words recorded in a different time have informed much of my attempt to understand why someone like Wright can be so incredibly divisive but also so right in certain ways.

The venue helps. A comedy show is there to make you laugh and so it is easier to listen to, laugh at- and then think about afterwards. Once someone makes you laugh, they can make you think.

But for people like me in my general background and age- to see a pastor express that same injustice in angry words is not only hard to comprehend, but it is downright frightening.

It is frightening because it is a rawer and purer form of the sheer anger that still lingers.

Worse still, one wonders how to deal with the underlying cause of the anger.

Rev. RUN DMC Wright's anger is NOT manifested in supremacy. He does not think he's great when making those statements. Actually it shows his insecurity as a person. Although it could happen, it would NEVER happen where he encourages a crowd of young African American boys to go out a think they can kill a whole bunch of white folks. Firstly, he will be cruxified and lynched in short order... If not that, he will be Bubba's boyfriend in prison very fast... His church is a "mega-church" with over 10K in membership. It looks like he is corrupting the poor and disenfranchised to buy into lunacy. Although he has community programs for his "flock"--will he lead them to drinking the red kool-aid? Or believe in the Hale-Bopp UFO? I don't know? But, I do know, I have been a witness to that kind of RHETORIC!!! It is comical to hear, but it really does nothing to help a desperate people...

Most African Americans are not interested in an all out race war genocide of killing White people. What for? We are no better as humans if such a war were to happen. All of us, no matter what ethnic group are better than that. Genocide is wrong, period. It is far better to communicate and work with people than to resort to violence and killing. Violence and killing has NEVER advanced the human ingenuity and nor exalted humankind's intelligence!

In the past, there have been GROSS offenses against humanity that have yet to have a reckoning... That is what causes anger, hatred and bigotry to last 500 years and the reason why folks fight for dumbassed crap over that time... But that is purely psychological issues IMHO. People say dumb crap to each other all the time--but it is what the offended folks choose to do with that pain in response that makes the difference.

If anything, this experience for you should be a lesson in "restraint" and what my MIL calls, "quiet diplomacy"--walking the hateful person through their logic and reasoning with them by calling on paradox... It takes speaking to elders about it and to practice it...

Originally Posted by EE-BO

America's greatness is based on the notion that anyone can come here and excel. The American Dream is there for all.

It was there for the Chinese, Irish and Italians when they came over in the late 1800s to early 1900s. It was there for the Jews who came here in the first half of the twentieth century. And it is there for the many Mexican, Central American, South American, Asian and Middle Eastern people who come here today.

But it has NEVER been there in full spirit for native Americans or for African-Americans.

I think much of this has to do with how the collective general masses of "Americans" at given points interacted with these 2 groups. Native Americans were our fatal enemies, and African-Americans were our slaves.

And given how many other general ethnic groups have come here and eventually been able to assimilate- I have to think those initial interactions are the real key to what is wrong.

Actually, I am seeing more young Asians coming to me asking questions. Amazingly getting it from Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese populations. I cannot tell you how many of these young people are hurt when they discover the brunt end of racist actions that most people like myself would brush off--i.e. epithets and racist name calling. I feel for them. In fact the elder Asians are starting to tell me things and I am myself is plainly shocked... Who is doing this to them? Not the Caucasian powerbroker CEO businessman or the elderly Caucasian grandmother... No... It's the youth!!!

And you had better believe me, the Middle Easterners do say things... They just don't say it in front of Caucasians. I am getting interactions with them ALL the time and I get into discussions with them often. When they see it, experience it and suffer from bigotry like that encountered in Jim Crow, they are coming to NAACP meetings and asking what can they do?

As far as Latinos--I have seen so much in my geographical area that is NOT right. The yelling at them because they are unable to speak enough English and are English illiterate. I, in my Spanglish that is really bad because it is not my foreign language training give them some assistance when I see it. That is when I see the smiles and gratefulness on their faces. At least somebody is trying in their eyes...

In fact, I am seeing new immigrant Eastern Europeans and Russians that are facing similar problems with educational assimilation as numerous other groups. They have similar concerns as many other groups...

So, that American Dream... Is just that... A dream... We have been UNABLE to fully realize that dream and it is full potential. A plurality! A republic! A revolution! My, my--what can we do as humans if we WOKE UP and found that dream a reality?

Maybe you should read Maya Angelou's "Dream Deferred"? And Rudyard Kipling's "If"?

Originally Posted by EE-BO

And yet the scary question still exists- where do we go from here?

I don't know the answer to that, but it is safe to say that guys like Sean Hannity talking about "Barack HUSSEIN Obama and his racist preacher" gets an A+ for ratings, but an F- for being of any real use whatsoever.

Well, Hannity needs some booty, period. He is all wound up tight. That is how you deal with Hannity...

Where you go from here is "quiet diplomacy"... Learn appropriate debate. Vehement spewing of rhetoric that never gets HUMANS far is far different from coming together for common causes that should inspire us all for 1000 generations.

My question to you is now, that you have seen what you view as hatred in the face, and yes, it scares you, how will you resolve to CHANGE it? How can you make a difference?

I am reminded I am African American every time I go in public. Most of the time, I ignore it and move forward. But, I am practicing "quiet diplomacy" in a non-violent manner... I see that humans progress further when I use teachable moments WITH them and I build more alliances that way...

Let me also ask you this, do you feel left out of somethings in regards to these issues? Do you care? Help me understand? I am just asking?

[jon1856]

Swift Boating the Speech

It was a great piece of oratory, and a good short-term political tactic. But it won’t help him beat McCain.

Few events in this relentlessly eventful campaign season have felt as momentous, as freighted with portent, as the speech that Barack Obama delivered last week on race. As a piece of rhetoric, Obama’s address was pretty much everything one could ever hope for from a presidential candidate on the vexed topic of black and white: nuanced, candid, gutsy, and replete with context. But Obama’s oration was more than a speech—it was a political maneuver. And, as such, at least in the short term, it was as nearly as effective as it was eloquent and erudite. It helped Obama move past the raging controversy stirred up by the rantings of Reverend Jeremiah Wright. It put him back on the elevated plane where he thrives. And, in the words of one Democratic strategist, “It strummed the mystic chords of the press corps, which has been south on him since Ohio and Texas.”


In the longer term, however, Obama’s speech did nothing to defuse an issue that Republicans clearly intend to beat him senseless with this fall—assuming that, as seems increasingly likely, he secures the Democratic nomination. Quite the contrary.....
http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/45317/

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Let me also ask you this, do you feel left out of somethings in regards to these issues? Do you care? Help me understand? I am just asking?

Hi AKA_Monet,

Sorry for the delay replying to this. I wanted to give this last question some thought as well.

I do care deeply about these matters- and in the context of people I care about as well as the world in general.

I don't necessarily feel left out, but I do feel like some of my views are not welcome- and on both sides at the extreme.

I do believe that a number of African-Americans and other legally defined and protected minority groups take unfair/unintended advantage of legal protections offered to them. There is no doubt about it- I have seen it with my own eyes.

But I do not think this is because of their race- it is human nature. It is a tough world out there and we ALL take advantage of whatever opportunities we have. Some of us do that in a good way, and some of us do that in a negative way.

And for racial groups already in a position of privilege and power, the same happens but it is more of a status quo thing since obviously there are no legal protections necessary.

I also have observed that some people of ALL races, religious groups etc. do look out for their own first to a degree that is detrimental to the long term goal of a true melting-pot society.

This is all normal human behavior that transcends race, religion or any other defining characteristic one wants to use to parse the population into groups.

However, the cold hard reality is that African-Americans as a group seem to get the "shaft" when this happens.

This is what I want to understand and what I think needs fixing.

This Democratic Primary is a good example. Obama gets the African-American vote while Hillary is stronger among women, the aged and Hispanic voters.

This messy Democratic Primary is a perfect example of what scares me. Whichever way it goes, there is going to be a lot of ugliness.

African-American vs. Hispanic interests are the real key economically. The big problem Democrats have right now is the issue of immigration and jobs going abroad as two of their key target constituencies are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum on how to deal with such issues.

Slavery and segregation were abolished in prior generations- but I think in my generation we are going to have to come to grips with the realities of a global economy, a growing permanent underclass in the US resulting from globalization and outsourcing; and why that hits the African-American community like a sledgehammer.

But amid all this cold analysis are human faces.

Remember the case of Josiah Sutton in Houston anyone? I know his mother. I was there the day she found out his conviction was overturned on DNA evidence and I will never forget her falling to the ground crying to the Lord in gratitude that her son was about to be freed. I was terrified to later find out he was convicted and his brilliant life path destroyed because he was black and wearing the same color baseball cap as the actual assailant in the case. He was convicted on THAT lousy eyewitness testimony. What white man would be convicted on those flimsy grounds?

Or there is a lady I know who is a single mom and has an absolutely brilliant child. He has such a future ahead if he can survive where he is living now. This is one of the most intelligent kids I have ever met- and his Mom is fighting a losing battle to keep him away from those who want to bring him into a more dangerous life- a struggle most of us white people can never imagine.

And then there are the falsely prosecuted college students and lacrosse players from Duke U. who are free now but will forever be demonized in the minds of many- young men who were made into symbols of hate for no reason at all other than the political ambitions of others.

These are the individual people I lose sleep over.

And I get upset because a lot of self-proclaimed black leaders are just as responsible for some of these dilemmas as the existing power structure.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

I do believe that a number of African-Americans and other legally defined and protected minority groups take unfair/unintended advantage of legal protections offered to them. There is no doubt about it- I have seen it with my own eyes.

I have not seen very many people of color take advantage of things legally offered them. I have not seen it, myself. That does not mean that it does not happen. Most people get what they deserve and work for 90% of time.

Originally Posted by EE-BO

I also have observed that some people of ALL races, religious groups etc. do look out for their own first to a degree that is detrimental to the long term goal of a true melting-pot society.

However, the cold hard reality is that African-Americans as a group seem to get the "shaft" when this happens.

This is what I want to understand and what I think needs fixing.

Well, folks get stabbed in the back by their own everyday. Black on black crime has gone up and is very violent. In my youth, many of my classmates started dying while pursuing gangs. Two of my friends were gunned down, 1 over a drug deal gone bad and one because he fought with doped out gang members. That was mid-1980's... A few folks in college decided to pay for school by selling drugs... They were criminally assaulted. These were all African Americans.

Positive interactions with my own has been tempered. Good and bad. But I have not given up, some of these "statistics" are in my own family... I don't know that many Caucasian families under similar circumstances. But I am meeting more and more who can relate. However, while growing up, I did not see my peers experiencing similar activities that I had friends and loved ones going through. Make sense?

Originally Posted by EE-BO

This Democratic Primary is a good example. Obama gets the African-American vote while Hillary is stronger among women, the aged and Hispanic voters.

This messy Democratic Primary is a perfect example of what scares me. Whichever way it goes, there is going to be a lot of ugliness.

African-American vs. Hispanic interests are the real key economically. The big problem Democrats have right now is the issue of immigration and jobs going abroad as two of their key target constituencies are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum on how to deal with such issues.

Slavery and segregation were abolished in prior generations- but I think in my generation we are going to have to come to grips with the realities of a global economy, a growing permanent underclass in the US resulting from globalization and outsourcing; and why that hits the African-American community like a sledgehammer.

But amid all this cold analysis are human faces.

I don't know about all of that now. Bill Richardson's endorsement of Obama was interesting to me. And bottomline it is the human faces in the end. Help the people become better people rather than destroy them or living by the sword...

That is MLK's legacy more than anything else. You should read Taylor Branch's "At Canaan's Edge". He interestingly was a part of the MLK movement right after the Bus Boycott as a Caucasian man... He was ~little older than you are now during that time... And the assasination of King is coming up on April 4, 2008...

Originally Posted by EE-BO

These are the individual people I lose sleep over.

And I get upset because a lot of self-proclaimed black leaders are just as responsible for some of these dilemmas as the existing power structure.

You can ponder these things if you'd like, but losing sleep? How will that work? How can you be effective as a leader by losing sleep?

I would not worry about these self-proclaimed leaders. They will ultimately speak up or they will falter. The order is NOT to be in the existing power structure--but to make your own...