Shooting at Northern Illinois University

[bohdi]

All the attention given to these horrific mass shootings in a way are advertising to the sick and twisted minds out there that the easiest way to make a name for yourself is to select a gun free zone (like a university, K-12 school, public mall, etc.) and it’s open season. Victims are plenty, and are easy prey as they are already disarmed. A murderer can take as much time as they need since they already know they will not initially be faced with any armed resistance what so ever. They also know that while the police may arrive quickly, the police are still going to have to take some time to organize and figure out how and where to respond with force. While it took only two minutes (30 seconds in one report) for the police to respond and be on scene, the rampage was already over in this case. It was said the quicker response was due to lessons learned from VT.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Had the school allowed the faculty, or the students to carry concealed weapons on campus, the numbers could be lower. Notice I didn't say the numbers would be eliminated. A crazed gunperson is probably always going to claim a few vicitms, that cannot be ignored. What I'm talking about is reducing the casualties and deaths by allowing students and faculty the option to carry. This cannot be ignored as was proven in Colorado Springs recently; armed citizens are deterrents and can put an end to a murder spree quickly. The school has a duty to provide security, actual security for the students, not measures to make students “feel” safe. I imagine that’s part of the tuition cost, and if I was a student attending there today I’d feel ripped off. If the administrators cannot guarantee a safe environment for learning then they should allow responsible adults – which last time I checked is the term used for people of age 18 and older in this country, to be armed on campus and off as local/state laws allow. Otherwise the school administration should look no further than them for allowing this to happen. They make the policy, they enforce the policy. People say guns on campus are a bad idea. Look at the lack of gun play at the Univeristy of Utah, where responsible students are allowed to carry. No mass shootings there.

People say allowing students to be armed is a bad idea; they can’t control themselves, and are irresponsible. These statements are unfounded (see U of Utah), and stereotype adults of a wide age range and maturity levels. It’s a form of discrimination. As a responsible gun owner I can meet with my state representatives in Virginia, in the General Assembly building in Richmond, while ARMED, but if I were to enroll at a local university I cannot attend classes armed for my own protection? Tell me that is not discrimination, against my constitutional rights. While a university or college may be private property, and private property owners can request you disarm, they then should be liable for any and all lawsuits that are the result of any damage that happens upon you for not creating a safe environment. How many more of these mass slayings will we have to endure before people wake up and realize that the current policy of disarming students is not working? Perhaps the answer is to take on-line classes. At least that way in my home, I can be armed, attend class, and know for certain that I am “safe”. I don't go around armed because I am "afraid" or so I can save the world. I am interested in saving my family and myself and having that option wherever I go.

Another way to look at this, is for all the boys and girls out there. How many of you have taken any kind of self defense classes or were taught how to "fight" or defend yourself? Why did you feel the need to do so? These things taught by those instructors are tools for you to use. No different than a gun, it's just a different type of tool. If someone tried to punch you in the face would you try to block it? Why would you not want to be able to try and shoot someone that was purposely shooting at you?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by bohdi

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Had the school allowed the faculty, or the students to carry concealed weapons on campus, the numbers could be lower. Notice I didn't say the numbers would be eliminated. A crazed gunperson is probably always going to claim a few vicitms, that cannot be ignored. What I'm talking about is reducing the casualties and deaths by allowing students and faculty the option to carry. This cannot be ignored as was proven in Colorado Springs recently; armed citizens are deterrents and can put an end to a murder spree quickly. The school has a duty to provide security, actual security for the students, not measures to make students “feel” safe. I imagine that’s part of the tuition cost, and if I was a student attending there today I’d feel ripped off. If the administrators cannot guarantee a safe environment for learning then they should allow responsible adults – which last time I checked is the term used for people of age 18 and older in this country, to be armed on campus and off as local/state laws allow. Otherwise the school administration should look no further than them for allowing this to happen. They make the policy, they enforce the policy. People say guns on campus are a bad idea. Look at the lack of gun play at the Univeristy of Utah, where responsible students are allowed to carry. No mass shootings there.
...
Another way to look at this, is for all the boys and girls out there. How many of you have taken any kind of self defense classes or were taught how to "fight" or defend yourself? Why did you feel the need to do so? These things taught by those instructors are tools for you to use. No different than a gun, it's just a different type of tool. If someone tried to punch you in the face would you try to block it? Why would you not want to be able to try and shoot someone that was purposely shooting at you?

Not going to respond to the whole thing as a) it's tl;dr, b) you're a one-poster and c) I have better things to do this morning. But, in response to the bolded:

The gunman in Colorado springs was shot by a security guard. Yes it was her personal weapon, but it was also her JOB. Despite the fact that conceal-carry appears to be legal there, there's no evidence that arming your average citizen deterred anything.

And secondly: Because returning fire means I make a better target. This isn't the movies and it isn't my job to kill the bad guy. It's my job to stay alive and to help others stay alive if possible. Also, even if I were 100% skilled enough to do so, I do NOT believe that this random chance outweighs the dislike I have for everyone else around me to be carrying a weapon. As it is, college students have less than fully developed decision making areas of their brains. I do not trust a large percentage of the population with a firearm carried on their person.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The gunman in Colorado springs was shot by a security guard. Yes it was her personal weapon, but it was also her JOB.

And also a former sworn police officer.

Another worrisome thing to me was brought up by KSIG RC earlier:

"It will be fascinating to see which happens first: a gun-carrying student shoots a gunman mid-assault and saves lives, or the gun-carrying student fails to stop an assailant/makes a "friendly fire"-type mistake/exacerbates a domestic situation or whatever."

Even professional law enforcement officers and military personnel who receive ongoing weapons training sometimes end up killing or wounding the wrong person.

Having taken a firearms safety class -- or several of them -- does not prepare one for combat.