When the novelty wears off...

[Benzgirl]

For any of your brothers that criticize men who wear Izod....
Lacoste always shows on 7th Avenue but Polo brand of Ralph Lauren does not (Ralph Lauren has several labels with Polo and Lauren being the lowest on the totem pole).

I'm not a guy and I'm not from the south, so I can't tell you what to think. I personally won't wear a Polo, but don't think ill of those who do. I think your brothers are being too materialistic, and you are right, this is starting to sound like SEC sorority recruitment where emphasis is on looks.

[33girl]

He said Izod, not Lacoste. They are 2 different things. I would explain how, but I really gotta pee.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

For any of your brothers that criticize men who wear Izod.... Lacoste always shows on 7th Avenue but Polo brand of Ralph Lauren does not (Ralph Lauren has several labels with Polo and Lauren being the lowest on the totem pole).

I'm not a guy and I'm not from the south, so I can't tell you what to think. I personally won't wear a Polo, but don't think ill of those who do. I think your brothers are being too materialistic, and you are right, this is starting to sound like SEC sorority recruitment where emphasis is on looks.

It's not really about whether Izod is more expensive than Polo, it is about whether a person fits in.

If someone would have come to one of my chapter's rush parties in a $2,000 casual outfit from someone like Armani or Gucci, they would have been shunned just as readily as someone who showed up with the lizard shirt.

Having lots of money does not alone do the trick- a person has to fit in.

The top tier fraternities and sororities at the SEC schools are a social continuance for most of their members. They came from the same places and they are, at least in most cases, headed in a certain direction.

Decades ago the same could have been said for many venerable chapters in the Northeast.

Maybe that is elitist, but if someone doesn't like it there are plenty of other GLOs on campus where they would be happy. And those other GLOs will tend to have their own particular character that is not suited for everyone.

At the end of the day, all chapters of all fraternities have their own particular rush criteria which can be as rational as GPA or as irrational as a few actives don't like your socks.

But the top tier GLOs get the criticism because they have wealth and privilege which inspires jealousy in others (not attacking you Benzgirl, this is a general commentary on what I have seen here and elsewhere.)

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

The top tier fraternities and sororities at the SEC schools are a social continuance for most of their members. They came from the same places and they are, at least in most cases, headed in a certain direction.

Snore!

So you are born together, are raised together, go to school together, have your babies together, and die together? What about diversity? What about broadening your horizons? Sounds pretty dull to me, but then what does a stupid midwestern hick know about southern social continuance?

So what you are saying is that the "top" (I use that loosely) houses in the SEC living in a vacuum?

I'll stay up north, thank you!

[33girl]

You hear all the time about how the members of the top groups at Ole Miss or Bama end up going into state politics, etc. - their connections having been made thru the GLO they joined. This happens all the time in small towns, it's just in this case it's the whole state.

[sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

Snore!

So you are born together, are raised together, go to school together, have your babies together, and die together? What about diversity? What about broadening your horizons? Sounds pretty dull to me, but then what does a stupid midwestern hick know about southern social continuance?

So what you are saying is that the "top" (I use that loosely) houses in the SEC living in a vacuum?

I'll stay up north, thank you!

I've been wondering this ever since this nation latched onto this diversity kick: What is so great about diversity? It is human nature to gravitate towards those like ourselves. I understand that it is essential to respect other cultures, races, ways of life, backgrounds, etc. but why should I feel the NEED to associate with these people, much less let them into my fraternity. I am not saying that we should go out of our way to keep uniformity, but I am saying that we should NOT go out of our way to make things diverse either. Top tier fraternities are just an example of people from similar backgrounds, with similar lifestyles and goals gravitating together.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by sasquatch

I've been wondering this ever since this nation latched onto this diversity kick: What is so great about diversity? It is human nature to gravitate towards those like ourselves. I understand that it is essential to respect other cultures, races, ways of life, backgrounds, etc. but why should I feel the NEED to associate with these people, much less let them into my fraternity. I am not saying that we should go out of our way to keep uniformity, but I am saying that we should NOT go out of our way to make things diverse either. Top tier fraternities are just an example of people from similar backgrounds, with similar lifestyles and goals gravitating together.

No one is saying "diversity for the sake of diversity" in social (or I dare say any other) GLOs. What benzgirl is against is the OMG THEY'RE NOT FROM HERE mentality that prevents you from getting to know someone that you might have a lot in common with and like a lot, even if they weren't raised in the same town or in the same social strata. I mean looking at where I come from, who would have thought I'd be friends with, among others, a 60 year old chemical engineer, a young mother from Peoria and a nice Jewish girl from New York City?

It seems that judging from some posts on here, there are chapters that DO make an effort to keep things "uniform." That's their prerogative, but don't be surprised if the majority of people you meet think it's narrow minded.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by 33girl

No one is saying "diversity for the sake of diversity" in social (or I dare say any other) GLOs. What benzgirl is against is the OMG THEY'RE NOT FROM HERE mentality that prevents you from getting to know someone that you might have a lot in common with and like a lot, even if they weren't raised in the same town or in the same social strata. I mean looking at where I come from, who would have thought I'd be friends with, among others, a 60 year old chemical engineer, a young mother from Peoria and a nice Jewish girl from New York City?

It seems that judging from some posts on here, there are chapters that DO make an effort to keep things "uniform." That's their prerogative, but don't be surprised if the majority of people you meet think it's narrow minded.

Exactly. It's simply my anti-bubble boy mentality and is something my parents taught me from the time I was little. I feel as if I am a better person by crossing paths with people from various countries, religions, races and socio-economic classes. I have learned from my experiences.

[breathesgelatin]

EvanWilliams, good for you for standing up for your beliefs. I would agree that it's extremely important not to alienate alumni.

One comment I would have re: the small town vs. city thing is that a lot of times small town guys may not have as much of a clue about "appropriate" male dress. For example at my school there were a variety of extremely elite, predominantly southern fraternities, but some drew mostly from southern cities (and more specifically a few major high schools in those cities) and others drew from more widely across the south's small towns. The difference was that the ones drawing from smaller towns tended to be a little more rough around the edges and enjoy slightly different pursuits (eg, hunting, 4-wheeling) whereas the city-oriented groups were more "polished" and probably a bit more concerned about dress and a guy's looks. I would say that overall the "city" frats were considered as stronger groups, but I'm speaking about the top 4-5 fraternities in the first place, so obviously all of them had strong reputations. I don't by any means think that the small town guys were from "worse" families or less wealthy than the city guys, just a slightly different culture.

Speaking of high fraternity dues, check out my alma mater's:

http://studentaffairs.wlu.edu/campus...arges_2007.pdf

Keep in mind that all members (not new members) have to pay for board and dues. And sophomores have to live in too. I can't even imagine shelling out what the sophomores pay....

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

Snore!

So you are born together, are raised together, go to school together, have your babies together, and die together? What about diversity? What about broadening your horizons? Sounds pretty dull to me, but then what does a stupid midwestern hick know about southern social continuance?

I agree. My chapter was not a top tier chapter. We were proud to identify ourselves as second tier because of what we saw as the dark side of being a top tier. Yes we were expensive and had a gigantic house, but we were far more open minded in our rush selections and unlike many chapters at my alma mater, we pretty much automatically welcomed brothers who transferred to our school from other chapters.

The vast majority of people from my high school went to one particular top tier chapter, but that does not mean all of us wanted to live the very boring existence you have pretty well summed up in all its dullness.

I was just explaining how it is in that environment. But luckily even though I did not fit in, I did manage to grow up and have a life. Amazing, no?

To SydneyK,

At many of the kinds of schools we are discussing, certainly at mine, the overwhelming majority of kids in the top tier fraternities and sororities had parents and grandparents who were also Greek. They know and appreciate the importance of the experience, and they do not skip out on their kids when it comes to paying the dues.

As a chapter advisor, my advice to any chapter is to contact parents of all new pledges to welcome their son to the fraternity. I have very rarely observed situations where a kid was going to pay for it on his own and have it work out that way. Even working full time in college, it is nearly impossible to keep up with dues and the related expenses of the lifestyle on your own.