When the novelty wears off...

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

The top tier fraternities and sororities at the SEC schools are a social continuance for most of their members. They came from the same places and they are, at least in most cases, headed in a certain direction.

Snore!

So you are born together, are raised together, go to school together, have your babies together, and die together? What about diversity? What about broadening your horizons? Sounds pretty dull to me, but then what does a stupid midwestern hick know about southern social continuance?

So what you are saying is that the "top" (I use that loosely) houses in the SEC living in a vacuum?

I'll stay up north, thank you!

[33girl]

You hear all the time about how the members of the top groups at Ole Miss or Bama end up going into state politics, etc. - their connections having been made thru the GLO they joined. This happens all the time in small towns, it's just in this case it's the whole state.

[sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

Snore!

So you are born together, are raised together, go to school together, have your babies together, and die together? What about diversity? What about broadening your horizons? Sounds pretty dull to me, but then what does a stupid midwestern hick know about southern social continuance?

So what you are saying is that the "top" (I use that loosely) houses in the SEC living in a vacuum?

I'll stay up north, thank you!

I've been wondering this ever since this nation latched onto this diversity kick: What is so great about diversity? It is human nature to gravitate towards those like ourselves. I understand that it is essential to respect other cultures, races, ways of life, backgrounds, etc. but why should I feel the NEED to associate with these people, much less let them into my fraternity. I am not saying that we should go out of our way to keep uniformity, but I am saying that we should NOT go out of our way to make things diverse either. Top tier fraternities are just an example of people from similar backgrounds, with similar lifestyles and goals gravitating together.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by sasquatch

I've been wondering this ever since this nation latched onto this diversity kick: What is so great about diversity? It is human nature to gravitate towards those like ourselves. I understand that it is essential to respect other cultures, races, ways of life, backgrounds, etc. but why should I feel the NEED to associate with these people, much less let them into my fraternity. I am not saying that we should go out of our way to keep uniformity, but I am saying that we should NOT go out of our way to make things diverse either. Top tier fraternities are just an example of people from similar backgrounds, with similar lifestyles and goals gravitating together.

No one is saying "diversity for the sake of diversity" in social (or I dare say any other) GLOs. What benzgirl is against is the OMG THEY'RE NOT FROM HERE mentality that prevents you from getting to know someone that you might have a lot in common with and like a lot, even if they weren't raised in the same town or in the same social strata. I mean looking at where I come from, who would have thought I'd be friends with, among others, a 60 year old chemical engineer, a young mother from Peoria and a nice Jewish girl from New York City?

It seems that judging from some posts on here, there are chapters that DO make an effort to keep things "uniform." That's their prerogative, but don't be surprised if the majority of people you meet think it's narrow minded.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by 33girl

No one is saying "diversity for the sake of diversity" in social (or I dare say any other) GLOs. What benzgirl is against is the OMG THEY'RE NOT FROM HERE mentality that prevents you from getting to know someone that you might have a lot in common with and like a lot, even if they weren't raised in the same town or in the same social strata. I mean looking at where I come from, who would have thought I'd be friends with, among others, a 60 year old chemical engineer, a young mother from Peoria and a nice Jewish girl from New York City?

It seems that judging from some posts on here, there are chapters that DO make an effort to keep things "uniform." That's their prerogative, but don't be surprised if the majority of people you meet think it's narrow minded.

Exactly. It's simply my anti-bubble boy mentality and is something my parents taught me from the time I was little. I feel as if I am a better person by crossing paths with people from various countries, religions, races and socio-economic classes. I have learned from my experiences.

[breathesgelatin]

EvanWilliams, good for you for standing up for your beliefs. I would agree that it's extremely important not to alienate alumni.

One comment I would have re: the small town vs. city thing is that a lot of times small town guys may not have as much of a clue about "appropriate" male dress. For example at my school there were a variety of extremely elite, predominantly southern fraternities, but some drew mostly from southern cities (and more specifically a few major high schools in those cities) and others drew from more widely across the south's small towns. The difference was that the ones drawing from smaller towns tended to be a little more rough around the edges and enjoy slightly different pursuits (eg, hunting, 4-wheeling) whereas the city-oriented groups were more "polished" and probably a bit more concerned about dress and a guy's looks. I would say that overall the "city" frats were considered as stronger groups, but I'm speaking about the top 4-5 fraternities in the first place, so obviously all of them had strong reputations. I don't by any means think that the small town guys were from "worse" families or less wealthy than the city guys, just a slightly different culture.

Speaking of high fraternity dues, check out my alma mater's:

http://studentaffairs.wlu.edu/campus...arges_2007.pdf

Keep in mind that all members (not new members) have to pay for board and dues. And sophomores have to live in too. I can't even imagine shelling out what the sophomores pay....

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

The difference was that the ones drawing from smaller towns tended to be a little more rough around the edges and enjoy slightly different pursuits (eg, hunting, 4-wheeling)

That describes my chapter perfectly. We didn't have the best mixers, but if you ever wanted to go hunting or fishing- someone had something planned just about every weekend.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Washington and Lee also costs about $35,000+ a year. W&L has a very different greek system than the big state schools. I made several visits when I was thinking about going there to swim.
I got the vibe that everyone there was very wealthy, and there were a lot of people from the Mid-Atlantic states, which are very different from the south. They were all really preppy.

True. I was a scholarship student (and that's why I went to W&L instead of Davidson or Furman). Most people can pay for these types of fraternity dues, but I think there's a significant number than are uncomfortable with the dues and also with the general standards based on looks etc., so there's this awkward balancing that goes on...

There are certainly fraternities that draw from the south and fraternities that draw from the north and mid-Atlantic at W&L. I was distinguishing between them from the beginning in my post. Honestly, I hung out at the mid-Atlantic fraternities, but I did have a knowledge of the more southern groups and their practices.

I guess my point is that there are different kinds of preppy and even within "elite" southern frats there can be different kinds of preppy.

For example within my favorite fraternity at W&L (the one I think produces the most gentleman and campus leaders) there are guys from many backgrounds and many of them don't even take a sip of alcohol until they are 21. They probably aren't cool in the big scheme of W&L frats and the group draws from both the mid-Atlantic and South but it's just the "nicest" guys IMO. It really depends on your individual experience.

My only goal in the original post was to point out variations between even "elite southern" groups and to comment on that.

Actually most of the swimmers pledge a particular frat at W&L so that could have had an effect too.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

Snore!

So you are born together, are raised together, go to school together, have your babies together, and die together? What about diversity? What about broadening your horizons? Sounds pretty dull to me, but then what does a stupid midwestern hick know about southern social continuance?

I agree. My chapter was not a top tier chapter. We were proud to identify ourselves as second tier because of what we saw as the dark side of being a top tier. Yes we were expensive and had a gigantic house, but we were far more open minded in our rush selections and unlike many chapters at my alma mater, we pretty much automatically welcomed brothers who transferred to our school from other chapters.

The vast majority of people from my high school went to one particular top tier chapter, but that does not mean all of us wanted to live the very boring existence you have pretty well summed up in all its dullness.

I was just explaining how it is in that environment. But luckily even though I did not fit in, I did manage to grow up and have a life. Amazing, no?

To SydneyK,

At many of the kinds of schools we are discussing, certainly at mine, the overwhelming majority of kids in the top tier fraternities and sororities had parents and grandparents who were also Greek. They know and appreciate the importance of the experience, and they do not skip out on their kids when it comes to paying the dues.

As a chapter advisor, my advice to any chapter is to contact parents of all new pledges to welcome their son to the fraternity. I have very rarely observed situations where a kid was going to pay for it on his own and have it work out that way. Even working full time in college, it is nearly impossible to keep up with dues and the related expenses of the lifestyle on your own.