The 2008 presidential field at-a-glance

[AGDee]

I don't think it's that different than my reasons for not voting for Hilary. Would I love to see the first female president? you bet Do I agree with her on a lot of issues? yes

My problem is this: Bush, Clinton, Bush... do we need a whole generation of people to never know any president other than a Bush or Clinton? It starts to look more like a monarchy or dynasty than a democracy. Also, the people who dislike Clinton really HATE her. I don't think it's useful to have a president who is the center of such polarization. Whether Democrat or Republican, I want to see a President who is respected, whether you agree with them on all issues or not. The people who really hate Hilary will criticize and bicker about everything she does, just because of who she is. I truly hope that the next President will be someone who can make us more purple and less Red vs. Blue.

[scbelle]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I don't think it's that different than my reasons for not voting for Hilary. Would I love to see the first female president? you bet Do I agree with her on a lot of issues? yes

My problem is this: Bush, Clinton, Bush... do we need a whole generation of people to never know any president other than a Bush or Clinton? It starts to look more like a monarchy or dynasty than a democracy. Also, the people who dislike Clinton really HATE her. I don't think it's useful to have a president who is the center of such polarization. Whether Democrat or Republican, I want to see a President who is respected, whether you agree with them on all issues or not. The people who really hate Hilary will criticize and bicker about everything she does, just because of who she is. I truly hope that the next President will be someone who can make us more purple and less Red vs. Blue.

Can I get an AMEN?? I'm one of the ones that HATES her, and I'm a tried and true Democrat (even though I lean toward fiscal conservatism). And if she's the Dem candidate in the general, I will simply vote against her, as long as it's McCain that's the other candidate. If it's anybody else, then I may just not vote in protest.

[LeslieAGD]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Do I agree with her on a lot of issues? yes

My problem is this: Bush, Clinton, Bush... do we need a whole generation of people to never know any president other than a Bush or Clinton? It starts to look more like a monarchy or dynasty than a democracy.

I'm surprised to hear you say you like her and most of her politics but won't vote for her because of her husband, the Bush Family, and polarization. Those are not exactly things she could control.

On a side note, the more I hear from/about Obama, the less I like him.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by LeslieAGD

I'm surprised to hear you say you like her and most of her politics but won't vote for her because of her husband, the Bush Family, and polarization. Those are not exactly things she could control.

On a side note, the more I hear from/about Obama, the less I like him.

I'm not saying I won't vote for her in the Presidential election if she is the Democratic candidate, but not in the primary. My main beef with Obama is that he hasn't had any details about his plans. He has a lot of ideas, but no real plans for implementing them. I think that's part of his inexperience though. My preferred candidate is Edwards because I think he'd be less polarizing and more moderate than the others.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I'm not saying I won't vote for her in the Presidential election if she is the Democratic candidate, but not in the primary. My main beef with Obama is that he hasn't had any details about his plans. He has a lot of ideas, but no real plans for implementing them. I think that's part of his inexperience though. My preferred candidate is Edwards because I think he'd be less polarizing and more moderate than the others.

Makes me wish I was in one of the states that actually gets attention. Those town hall meetings and such actually provide policy papers. I keep HEARING about them and how they've been talking policy (Clinton and Obama specifically, other candidates in general) but hell if the media will cover it.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by LeslieAGD

I'm surprised to hear you say you like her and most of her politics but won't vote for her because of her husband, the Bush Family, and polarization. Those are not exactly things she could control.

On a side note, the more I hear from/about Obama, the less I like him.

Well, depending on how you look at it, her long term philandering husband is something she could have controlled. . .

Would you have put up with Bill's crap? Bill's especially public cheating on you for years with multiple women?

She had the option (and good reason) to no longer being related to him.

I also think her own actions make her a polarizing figure, so the idea that it's not in her control is a little weird.

And if everything else were equally appealing about two candidates, wouldn't it be better to choose the one who broke out of the inner establishment echo chamber?

(Now, I don't know if things ARE really equal, but I think the avoidance of the kind of dynasty crap we're seeing is a valid point.)

[LeslieAGD]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Well, depending on how you look at it, her long term philandering husband is something she could have controlled. . .

Would you have put up with Bill's crap? Bill's especially public cheating on you for years with multiple women?

She had the option (and good reason) to no longer being related to him.

I don't know...it's easy to stand on the sidelines and say "yes, she should have dumped his sorry ass." But unless it's your life and your family, it's kind of hard to judge.

I think that has very little to do with her ability to be a good president. In fact, I give her some credit for being able to endure that all that in the public eye and still hold her head up...whether you like her or not, that takes strength.

[AGDee]

I have heard people express what UGA Alum has and I've heard the opposite.. that she is keeping her marriage covenant and working it out. Reality is, there are a lot of power couples who tolerate things in their marriage because there are still more advantages to remaining married for them. I won't tolerate a man who leaves the toilet seat up, but some women just deal with it

[scbelle]

Originally Posted by LeslieAGD

I give her some credit for being able to endure that all that in the public eye and still hold her head up...whether you like her or not, that takes strength.

Or it takes an insane amount of strategery and planning because you know that you yourself have office-aspirations and aren't likable or politically-savvy (like your genius, philandering husband) enough to get elected on your own.

[LeslieAGD]

Originally Posted by scbelle

Or it takes an insane amount of strategery and planning because you know that you yourself have office-aspirations and aren't likable or politically-savvy (like your genius, philandering husband) enough to get elected on your own.

Again, it's hard to know what goes on behind closed doors but I don't think her first thought was "I plan to stick this out so that I, myself, can run for the presidency in 10 years."

I disagree that she's not likable or politically savvy...But hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[scbelle]

I would agree with you that it probably wasn't her first thought. Her first thought probably was along the lines of, "I'm going to castrate you, you lying sack of you-know-what." The staying with him for political gain was probably her second thought. I jest of course...

But when you're faced with making a decision, you either consciously or subconsciously weigh the pros and cons, figure what the payoff is. Honestly, I can't see much payoff staying with a man who has serially cheated on me and embarrassed me to the nth degree. You're right, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. I never have liked Hillary, so honestly, I skew my opinion of her motives unfavorably.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by LeslieAGD

I don't know...it's easy to stand on the sidelines and say "yes, she should have dumped his sorry ass." But unless it's your life and your family, it's kind of hard to judge.

I think that has very little to do with her ability to be a good president. In fact, I give her some credit for being able to endure that all that in the public eye and still hold her head up...whether you like her or not, that takes strength.

Or it takes a steely resolve to look after your own best longterm political interest as the expense of being authentic or holding resolved moral values . You say tomato and I say. . .

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Or it takes a steely resolve to look after your own best longterm political interest as the expense of being authentic or holding resolved moral values . You say tomato and I say. . .

Wouldn't a resolved moral value be that marriage is "till death do we part?"

[LeslieAGD]

Originally Posted by scbelle

I never have liked Hillary, so honestly, I skew my opinion of her motives unfavorably.

And you are entitled to your opinion...for me, her personal struggles just don't play much of a role in whether or not I think she is capable of being president. I like many of her ideas, and I like that she seems to discuss her plans for how she hopes to accomplish things (unlike Obama who, to me, sounds like a broken record that keeps repeating the words "change" and "hope").

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

Wouldn't a resolved moral value be that marriage is "till death do we part?"

Touche!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

Wouldn't a resolved moral value be that marriage is "till death do we part?"

How about the "forsaking all others part" for Bill?

If you think "till death do we part" means accepting repeated adultery, maybe, but I somehow doubt that someone as progressive as Hillary had trouble conceptually with divorce.

Most of her other positions seem pretty fluid.

ETA: I'm thinking more about this. Even the Catholic Church, which I tend to think of as being really resolved on the issue of marriage and divorce, wouldn't require you to remain with a spouse who repeatedly committed adultery. Now, they wouldn't let you remarry if you separated, but you don't just have to keep putting up with crap.