living together before marriage: opinions?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Roxygrrl, in some states, it seems to me that you've met all of the requirements of common law marriage. Depending on where you live, you might just be married. (Colorado, Washington D.C., Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Oklahoma, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Texas, South Carolina or Utah)

The trouble with folks like you is this: What happens if you do decide to go your separate ways? Being married carries with it all sorts of protections in divorce. You don't have those sorts of protections if you're just dissolving a partnership. Also -- if one of you dies and doesn't have a will, what happens then?

In those states, do you need to declare yourself married to be common law married? I hope that makes sense. We used to have it in PA, but we don't anymore (unless you're grandfathered in).

And this is off topic, but partnered or not, married or not, EVERYONE should have a will.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The trouble with folks like you is this: What happens if you do decide to go your separate ways? Being married carries with it all sorts of protections in divorce. You don't have those sorts of protections if you're just dissolving a partnership. Also -- if one of you dies and doesn't have a will, what happens then?

This is my major issue with cohabitation (and the reason I am for gay civil unions), and something that made me get out of my relationship as soon as I realized that I didn't want to get married to him. We were on great terms--and still are--but there was no way I was going to stay in a relationship out of inertia, because I would probably be the one left out in the cold financially in a split.

Also, what happens when one person gets really sick? Without anything listing you as a next of kin or giving you power of attorney, you're SOL. As good as you "think" you are with your SO's family, people show their asses when there's a crisis.

[SthrnZeta]

I live with my boyfriend and I told him straight up that I want to get married at some point, that moving in with him may have been a matter of convenience at the time but that it had now turned into something altogether more serious and he agreed. Hopefully time for a candlelight soon...? My point is that setting forth expectations beforehand when moving in with a boyf or girlf is definitely a good idea.

[APhi Sailorgirl]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Also, what happens when one person gets really sick? Without anything listing you as a next of kin or giving you power of attorney, you're SOL. As good as you "think" you are with your SO's family, people show their asses when there's a crisis.

This was something that was brought up when we thought my fiance was going to have neck surgery. I told him that he should probably have his mom or dad present for the surgery in case something went wrong. I would have no say in the matter since we aren't married yet.

Although speaking about assets within the "household" the neighbors of friends initially only lived together because it was financially easier. They actually would mark stuff like furniture with one or the other's name just in case. They even kept it up after marriage for a bit. But they have been happily married for years with grown children now. But at the time it was a system they figured would work.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

This is my major issue with cohabitation (and the reason I am for gay civil unions), and something that made me get out of my relationship as soon as I realized that I didn't want to get married to him. We were on great terms--and still are--but there was no way I was going to stay in a relationship out of inertia, because I would probably be the one left out in the cold financially in a split.

Also, what happens when one person gets really sick? Without anything listing you as a next of kin or giving you power of attorney, you're SOL. As good as you "think" you are with your SO's family, people show their asses when there's a crisis.

I agree with all of that.

Some people seem to think marriage is passé now, apparently. As passé as it is, however, the protections which come with it should still prove to be extremely relevant. For all the bullcrap that goes along with getting POAs written up, making sure wills are in order, owning everything in a corporate partnership, etc., marriage is a hell of a lot easier.

Also, if you're afraid of what happens in a divorce, see lawyers, get prenupital agreements written up. I very much believe in marriage for life, etc., (I'm old fashioned like that), but I still have a prenup, because sh%% happens.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by 33girl

In those states, do you need to declare yourself married to be common law married? I hope that makes sense. We used to have it in PA, but we don't anymore (unless you're grandfathered in).

And this is off topic, but partnered or not, married or not, EVERYONE should have a will.

I thought some states just had a time limit, like 7 years of cohabitation, that was automatically a common law marriage. I didn't think that required declaring that you're married or even knowing that your cohabitation was covered under the law.

[DSTCHAOS]

I had a friend who was reeeeeeally antimarriage and an extreme feminist who saw this all as patriarchy controlling our lives.

Until her boyfriend was going for his tour of duty overseas and they thought about who would be the first contact for his leaves and if something happened. They didn't want the first and only contact to be his parents anymore.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I thought some states just had a time limit, like 7 years of cohabitation, that was automatically a common law marriage. I didn't think that required declaring that you're married or even knowing that your cohabitation was covered under the law.

You are correct. In some states it's 5 years, in others its 7 years. In other states, at one time it could be contracted, but can no longer be. Several states have never permitted common-law marriage: Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Louisiana, Maryland, NC, Oregon, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, Washington West Va and Wyoming..

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

In those states, do you need to declare yourself married to be common law married? I hope that makes sense. We used to have it in PA, but we don't anymore (unless you're grandfathered in).

And this is off topic, but partnered or not, married or not, EVERYONE should have a will.

You have to "intend" to be married. It's not just living with someone for 5-7 years, it's the intent behind it.

<-Took a family law class and it came in handy.. whooo!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

You have to "intend" to be married. It's not just living with someone for 5-7 years, it's the intent behind it.

<-Took a family law class and it came in handy.. whooo!

The factors are very different from state to state.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The factors are very different from state to state.

Indeed but from here Wiki
Intent to be married, considering each other husband and wife, mutual agreement to the marriage, and/or representing yourself as husband and wife to others are in every set of standards.

So you do have to intend to be married/to show you're married in each state.

[DSTCHAOS]

I need something better than Wiki for most discussions.

[RoxyGrrrl]

A lot of people say they would not live together and have children but children end up showing up somehow. Cohabitation creates the all-too-familiar context and leads to a lot of things that people do not foresee, in general.

Children aren't an option for us, so none will just show up "somehow." Besides, I know how that happens!

We actually have faced serious illness but had the POA thing covered beforehand. We have wills, life insurance policies, all the paperwork. We are actually recognized by a court of law as being legally married, so it's a common law thing. It does vary state to state though. We each own a home in our name solely.

I don't think marriage is passe by any means.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by RoxyGrrrl

We are actually recognized by a court of law as being legally married, so it's a common law thing.

Well, there ya go.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

You have to "intend" to be married.

Originally Posted by Kevin

The factors are very different from state to state.

Kevin, is right -- the laws vary from state to state. Even the Wiki, which you quoted doesn't seem to disagree:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Indeed but from here Wiki
Intent to be married, considering each other husband and wife, mutual agreement to the marriage, and/or representing yourself as husband and wife to others are in every set of standards.

In some states the operative question (again set forth in the Wiki) is whether you have held yourself out as husband and wife, with the apparent presumption that you would not do so absent intent.

Now, going back to the post Kevin was responding to:

Originally Posted by RoxyGrrrl

For me however, I have been living with someone for 12 years now. Most people don't know we're not officially married as we own two homes, wear rings, and refer to each other as husband and wife. At one point I contemplated leaving him (not because of not being married) and no, it wouldn't have been as simple as packing a bag and physically leaving.

There, in the bolded part, we appear to have "representing yourself to others as husband and wife." So, Kevin is right (family law class or not) -- in some states, RoxyGrrrl and her "husband" may have created a common law marriage.

The reality is that, other than with issues at places like hospitals, this often isn't really an issue unless (1) the couple separates or (2) one of them dies. For example, lets say RoxyGrrrl (sorry, RoxyGrrrl, to use you as the example) do live where common law marriages can be formed by holding yourself out as husband and wife for 7 years and stay together for 10 years after she becomes Dr. RoxyGrrrl, but then she decided she wants out. Her boyfriend might decide to counter with "we're married, so I want my share of what Dr. RoxyGrrrl has accumulated for us during our marriage." Hello, court fight.

Originally Posted by RoxyGrrrl

We are actually recognized by a court of law as being legally married, so it's a common law thing. It does vary state to state though.

I wondered since you also said that most people don't know that you're not "officially married." But thanks for settling it.