Saudi Rape victim is sentenced

[nittanyalum]

2-HUNDRED lashes!?!??!? That might KILL her, for crissakes.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Don't try to apply our reasoning to their laws and culture - it's way beyond that. Just be glad that you don't live there.

Exactly.
If you guys want to read an excellent book, Read "Princess" by Jean Sasson. It will make you very thankful that you live in North America.

[SigKapAngel767]

Co-sign, Nittany. Co-sign everyone that's grateful to be in the U.S.

There is a chance her corporal punishment could kill her....infection, damage to kidneys, loss of blood, etc. She may live if they have a doctor present to guide them away from vital organs as they are punishing her.

She is so young....I pray she lives to see better days.

[Kevin]

Respect their culture? Bullcrap.. when a culture has norms such as this, other civilizations are not required to respect them. We ought to condemn them.

This sort of punishment could only be carried out by barbaric animals.

That said, the world community will likely be mum. We can't threaten a country like Saudi Arabia with sanctions, but damn... this is a good example why the religious political wing in any country is something to be feared.

This is much like Darfur. Should we ignore the genocide going on there simply because the sovereign government there says it's okay since it's supposedly religiously justified? Hell no. None of this is okay.

To be clear, I don't see this as anything generally being wrong with Islam itself. I see this as there being a large number of practitioners of Islam who are extremists to the point that they, in my eyes have largely cast aside their humanity. That a culture of this era could condone such a thing is pretty shocking.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

Exactly.
If you guys want to read an excellent book, Read "Princess" by Jean Sasson. It will make you very thankful that you live in North America.

Reading "Princess" and the sequels is one of the few ways I could come to grips with a sorority sister's "honor killing". Sarai's Story She wasn't a princess, but at least I better understood the culture which allowed this to happen.

[squirrely girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Respect their culture? Bullcrap.. when a culture has norms such as this, other civilizations are not required to respect them. We ought to condemn them.

This sort of punishment could only be carried out by barbaric animals.

have to say i completely agree - there does come a point in time, when despite being respectful to cultural differences, some practices are just plain wrong. human rights violations are just unacceptable to me. as a global society we do have some responsibility to point out these violations, and if necessary, intervene. WWII, bosnia, rwanda, darfur, etc...

200 lashes will likely kill this young woman. 90 would have been bad enough and certainly caused significant bodily harm and disfigurement.

this is NOT an appropriate response of a legal system that is supposed to protect its citizens. even worse, when you think of this as a legal system who's laws possibly contribute to the actual crime. Should we have strict laws to prevent sexual predators or are they breeding more sexual predators by virtue of not allowing normal developmentally appropriate interactions between the sexes?

Its like sex education in this country. By taking an abstinence only educational perspective, you get a bunch of ignorant kids who teach each other or make stuff up. I’m not saying that disallowing interaction with opposite sex non-relatives makes rapists. But I am saying that it could lead to situations where woefully ignorant people make horrible decisions.

So again, why would you punish the victim? It DOES NOT make sense.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

have to say i completely agree - there does come a point in time, when despite being respectful to cultural differences, some practices are just plain wrong. human rights violations are just unacceptable to me. as a global society we do have some responsibility to point out these violations, and if necessary, intervene. WWII, bosnia, rwanda, darfur, etc...

200 lashes will likely kill this young woman. 90 would have been bad enough and certainly caused significant bodily harm and disfigurement.

this is NOT an appropriate response of a legal system that is supposed to protect its citizens. even worse, when you think of this as a legal system who's laws possibly contribute to the actual crime. Should we have strict laws to prevent sexual predators or are they breeding more sexual predators by virtue of not allowing normal developmentally appropriate interactions between the sexes?

Its like sex education in this country. By taking an abstinence only educational perspective, you get a bunch of ignorant kids who teach each other or make stuff up. I’m not saying that disallowing interaction with opposite sex non-relatives makes rapists. But I am saying that it could lead to situations where woefully ignorant people make horrible decisions.

So again, why would you punish the victim? It DOES NOT make sense.

I didn't say we should respect their customs. I just said that there's no point in trying to rationalize how/why they do things their way...because according to what we believe here in our country, their way makes no sense.

Saudi Arabia has been doing things this way for a long time...this is just one case. Where's the outrage for public beheadings for crimes that might not even earn prison time here? There are plenty of men that are executed for stupid reasons, too.

And...doesn't everyone get why Saudi Arabia thinks it's ok to punish this woman? Because they don't see her as a victim...she disobeyed one of their laws...she broke the law, and reaped what she sowed. THAT is how messed up that place is.

[squirrely girl]

oh i completely get what you're saying too. if anything, understanding the culture is the only way to truly implement change.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Just think....if something like that was instituted here how many sexual predators we could probably be rid of....

Are you kidding? The best way to NOT get rid of sexual predators is to act as if it's mostly about what the victim has done to put her/himself in the presence of a predator.

Besides....

A large percentage of rapes, sexual assaults, molestations, and murders are done by relatives.

The Saudi letter of law is Saudi's. We have more than enough patriarchy in the U.S. that we don't have to borrow Saudi's. Let's not pretend that Saudi's laws are to protect women more than they are to protect the gender status quo.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I didn't say we should respect their customs. I just said that there's no point in trying to rationalize how/why they do things their way...because according to what we believe here in our country, their way makes no sense.

Their way also makes no sense to many people in Saudi Arabia who feel free enough or have risked their lives to express their opinions of discontent.

As much as many things in the U.S. also don't make any sense, and as much as I critique inequalities here, there's no place I'd rather be.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Monet...think about it...in the 21st century we now have lists of sexual predators, we have people who get locked up for getting a BJ which seemed totally innocent(reminder...Glenarlow and company were unchaperoned...) ...kids that are disappearing and later turning up raped if not dead...we have women going to visit so called internet buddies who get abused and raped and this is here in the 'civilized' US of A....so where is the civility here? Where is the enlightenment that people can get to co mingle and nothing will happen....remember less than a hundred years ago, there was an unspoken rule right here in this good ol' US of A that when a man went courting a woman, he sat there in full view of family (of course we know that this didn't always happen and if they were caught, there was dire consequences...but I digress) and in practice, the only time they were alone was after they married.

Are you in the inaccurate mindset that there has been an increase in sexual predators due to changes in the norms and laws of this society?

Is this based on a study or just based on your ability to find sexual predator registries? It's based on the latter. There have always been sexual predators, just has there has always been all types of crime. Unspoken rules of the past do not mean anything. The laws and social norms simply changed to make such victimization unacceptable. Just like women and children stopped being considered a man's property that he could abuse as much as he chose.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Are you in the inaccurate mindset that there has been an increase in sexual predators due to changes in the norms and laws of this society?

Is this based on a study or just based on your ability to find sexual predator registries? It's based on the latter. There have always been sexual predators, just has there has always been all types of crime. Unspoken rules of the past do not mean anything. The laws and social norms simply changed to make such victimization unacceptable. Just like women and children stopped being considered a man's property that he could abuse as much as he chose.

I didn't say anything about an increase...but the USA has to have a list (and one that doesn't work too well apparently) to keep a track of the ones that are known about.

And I wasn't basing it on a study....I was just stating an opinion based on observation

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I didn't say anything about an increase...but the USA has to have a list (and one that doesn't work too well apparently) to keep a track of the ones that are known about.

And I wasn't basing it on a study....I was just stating an opinion based on observation

Then what is your point?
That we have a sex offender registry that we didn't have decades ago? Can't put anything past you.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Then what is your point?
That we have a sex offender registry that we didn't have decades ago? Can't put anything past you.

no...not the point at all...

Just my opinion that if we did some things different with our mores and values especially when it comes to dating, that we probably wouldn't need one.

That's all

[Kevin]

We don't "have to" have a list, we choose to have a list.