JENA 6

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Wait, what? You're totally inconsistent here - did he instigate it, or did his actions somehow cause/deserve the beating?

Holy crap - this doesn't disprove Rudey's point at all, dude.




Oh, so he did 'deserve' it? I thought the actions didn't "condone" (sic) this?



Yep, definitely the kid's fault for getting dropped by six kids - what a big pussy.

Daemon, honestly, you have to read this post with the 'objectivity' you beg of everyone else - it's pretty unbelievable, and pretty shitty.

NONONO.....wait KSIG


What I am saying....and this isn't disproving Rudey but disproving the DA....

He didn't mention in his report what precipitated the fight ie: Barker's taunting of Bailey which basically was instigating...what happened Friday night was brought up in school that Monday. (When keepin' it real goes wrong....). Bailey instead of ignoring it, decided foolishly to retaliate.

What I am saying in response to the DA's report is to not make it look like Barker was a totally innocent person. Totally innocent would have been one random kid who was just going along and minding his business who all of a sudden gets jumped. According to the account, Barker made himself a part of business that he wasn't involved in....KSig...I have seen enough and have been apart of enough events like these (which thankfully never escalated and got this involved) at school to know....sometimes it's wise to mind your own and not stick your lip in it.

Barker didn't deserve the @sswhupping he got.....heck...what he said he should have kept it to himself....

But...something my parents always taught me, is to be careful your mouth can get you into trouble.

KSIG...question...when you was a kid, have you ever said something inappropiate and got popped in the mouth for it? How did it make you feel? What did you learn from it?

I had it happen enough to me when I was a child to eventually learn to be careful what I say around folks because the consequences could be a whole lot severe that a simple pop in the mouth from a well meaning parent.

Let us agree to this too if possible, with kids being the way they are nowadays, it's lucky he wasn't shot.

Think about it...how many times this year have we seen poor exercises in what to say out of one's mouth has lead to negative press?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

According to the account, Barker made himself a part of business that he wasn't involved in....KSig...I have seen enough and have been apart of enough events like these (which thankfully never escalated and got this involved) at school to know....sometimes it's wise to mind your own and not stick your lip in it.

Barker didn't deserve the @sswhupping he got.....heck...what he said he should have kept it to himself....

But...something my parents always taught me, is to be careful your mouth can get you into trouble.

KSIG...question...when you was a kid, have you ever said something inappropiate and got popped in the mouth for it? How did it make you feel? What did you learn from it?

This is completely irrelevant and inconsistent with anything else you've said, I hope you realize this.

Also, I did get popped in the face, but never jumped by six dudes - this is why I never called the cops, not why I stopped talking shit. They're apples and oranges.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I had it happen enough to me when I was a child to eventually learn to be careful what I say around folks because the consequences could be a whole lot severe that a simple pop in the mouth from a well meaning parent.

Let us agree to this too if possible, with kids being the way they are nowadays, it's lucky he wasn't shot.

What?

So the kid should have learned from this? He's lucky he wasn't SHOT?

I honestly have no idea where you're going with this now - help me out here, how is this at all relevant to the Mychal Bell issue?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

This is completely irrelevant and inconsistent with anything else you've said, I hope you realize this.

Also, I did get popped in the face, but never jumped by six dudes - this is why I never called the cops, not why I stopped talking shit. They're apples and oranges.



What?

So the kid should have learned from this? He's lucky he wasn't SHOT?

I honestly have no idea where you're going with this now - help me out here, how is this at all relevant to the Mychal Bell issue?

it's not irrelevant or inconsistent Ksig...this really just shows the difference on where we come from...I have had times when I have been jumped by more than one dude....I am sidebarring a bit so bear with me....

Understand this...it didn't help when I was younger, I was taller and bigger than others around my age...so sometimes when I got into fights I usually had to deal with the sibling / friend of the kid that I was already having the beef with...but you know what...we never called the cops...you sucked it up and go on...

ALSO...we on both sides of the coin (protagonist and antagonists) rarely ever beat someone up enough to send them to the hospital....you got your @ss whupped....done deal. No need to be savages about it.

Ksig...please don't tell me you have never heard of people who got shot simply because they looked at someone funny or got thier foot stepped on or whatever...let me speak for myself because our ages may be way different...these kids of today don't fight fair like some of us did years ago...these idiots are so quick to resolve an issue with a gun without realizing the consequences of THIER actions in a move to retaliate against a slight....this is why I said that Barker and Bell are both lucky...there are too many instances where you hear about people being shot and killed for dumb stuff like this.

Both of these kids were wrong...bottom line

both should have thought before they acted...also bottom line...

both have and are paying for the inabilty to think.

If you are going to fight...fight...fight fair...and then be able to look that person in the eye when you are done and be able to shake hands, resolve your issues and move on.

These are things that happened when I was a child living where I lived....Some of us could be friend's in the morning, fighting by noon and back friends at night.


As much as we want to think that people (kids especially) will sit down and peaceully negotiate....it doesn't always happen...if that was the case...we wouldn't be 'fighting' in some places of the world...but Sig...that is a whole other thread.

[DSTCHAOS]

This Jena 6 is about 3 things as far as I'm concerned:

1) The failure of parents
2) The failure of the school
3) How people see race and racial inequality in 2007.

1) There is no reason why a) there is anyone who does not know that a noose isn't a prank but rather holds great significance as a symbol of oppression and murder and b) there is anyone who thinks that violence is an acceptable response, not to mention 6-on-1 violence. The parents of the white kids failed and the parents of the black kids failed. Kids don't learn acceptable vs unacceptable behavior on their own.

2. The school's response is piss poor and that's where the litigation should be directed. First of all, a noose is not a prank and to rule it as such shows extreme ignorance and short sightedness on the part of the administration. Then to rule it as a prank and dismiss it without holding an assembly, a workshop, or some type of discussion with the students about the incident is stupid. Kids needed to know that it was an unacceptable course of action, that will be punished, and that anyone who retaliates will be punished. Students also needed to be talked to about racial antagonism and what it stems from so that it could be calmed on both sides. ADULTS don't know what to do about racism so why would idiots assume KIDS would do any better? The tree itself isn't the issue. What the tree REPRESENTS is the issue. It represented a group's property and the racial antagonism came when another group threatened to take over. That's how racism works in the real world, regardless of whether we're on a high school campus or in the workplace.

3. It's no secret that people who don't know any better think that the absence of overt hostility means there's no problem, interpersonally and structurally. The white locals in Jena who claim "everything was fine until one day the cameras showed up" and the black locals in Jena who are generally afraid to stand up because they fear the repurcussions, it's the same song that's been sung throughout this nation's history. Jena, Louisiana is just a microcosm of the issue that expands beyond the Deep South.

For me, it's not even about the Jena 6, themselves, and whether Michael Bell was released. Kids on both sides of this incident deserved just and fair punishment. But whether or not that is what happened is what people are discussing. No one with a grain of brain is arguing that the Jena 6 should've done what they did and shouldn't receive punishment. People are saying that you can't allow things to persist without expecting it to blow up in your face. And when it blows up, you have to make the punishment fair and equally distributed.

After all of this dies down, what will be the solution? Are people going to go back to business as usual? Of course. Will there be improvement? Not unless it is forced improvement because out of sight is out of mind.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

.


2. The school's response is piss poor and that's where the litigation should be directed. First of all, a noose is not a prank and to rule it as such shows extreme ignorance and short sightedness on the part of the administration. Then to rule it as a prank and dismiss it without holding an assembly, a workshop, or some type of discussion with the students about the incident is stupid. Kids needed to know that it was an unacceptable course of action, that will be punished, and that anyone who retaliates will be punished. Students also needed to be talked to about racial antagonism and what it stems from so that it could be calmed on both sides. ADULTS don't know what to do about racism so why would idiots assume KIDS would do any better? The tree itself isn't the issue. What the tree REPRESENTS is the issue. It represented a group's property and the racial antagonism came when another group threatened to take over. That's how racism works in the real world, regardless of whether we're on a high school campus or in the workplace.

Agreed that more should have been done.

Also, if this wasn't treated as a hate crime (federal statutes states that due to circumstances it isn't) it's still grounds for the charge of aggravated harrassment.

All parties should have sat down and discussed this....what makes it worse is that some of the students TRIED to resolve this peacefully and were denied by the school board. What does that teach them about resolving differences?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Agreed that more should have been done.

Also, if this wasn't treated as a hate crime (federal statutes states that due to circumstances it isn't) it's still grounds for the charge of aggravated harrassment.

All parties should have sat down and discussed this....what makes it worse is that some of the students TRIED to resolve this peacefully and were denied by the school board. What does that teach them about resolving differences?

I remember in elementary school when we would have "salt and pepper fights" during recess or after school. Those usually happened when President Reagan made some big announcement, regarding employment or the war on drugs, which caused some white parents to talk bad about racial and ethnic minorities in front of their kids (i.e. "those people are criminal with no jobs but they're trying to take ours" or "the war on drugs is about those people in the inner city"). Then the kids would come to school with that nonsense and do "kid-like" stuff like denying access to a cafeteria seat to express their parents' opinions. They didn't know what the hell they were really doing but knew they were supposed to be mad at someone for something and were supposed to protect what's "rightfully theirs" to keep "others" from getting access to it.

In other words, kids don't get this from no where. That applies to the racial stuff and the violent response to it. Kids get almost everything they do from adults.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I remember in elementary school when we would have "salt and pepper fights" during recess or after school. Those usually happened when President Reagan made some big announcement, regarding employment or the war on drugs, which caused some white parents to talk bad about racial and ethnic minorities in front of their kids (i.e. "those people are criminal with no jobs but they're trying to take ours" or "the war on drugs is about those people in the inner city"). Then the kids would come to school with that nonsense and do "kid-like" stuff like denying access to a cafeteria seat to express their parents' opinions. They didn't know what the hell they were really doing but knew they were supposed to be mad at someone for something and were supposed to protect what's "rightfully theirs" to keep "others" from getting access to it.

In other words, kids don't get this from no where. That applies to the racial stuff and the violent response to it. Kids get almost everything they do from adults.

^^^^^ EXACTLY!

I went thru some of the same things in middle school also.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

^^^^^ EXACTLY!

I went thru some of the same things in middle school also.

I went to 95% black middle and high schools. The whites there generally went of out of their way to try to be "down."

The racial antagonism was usually with the students in the ESL classes. I remember this Asian student who didn't speak much English was getting picked on. When it came down to the actual hallway fight, the students underestimated the fact that he was from China and might possibly know a form of martial art. Well he certainly was about the wax the floor with this one dude's face. I don't think the kid from China knew what the other kids were saying to him. He just saw that he was being surrounded and laughed at, survival mode kicked in. I seriously don't think the other kid was going to fight him. He just wanted attention. He was about to earn a butt whooping, though.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I went to 95% black middle and high schools. The whites there generally went of out of their way to try to be "down."

The racial antagonism was usually with the students in the ESL classes. I remember this Asian student who didn't speak much English was getting picked on. When it came down to the actual hallway fight, the students underestimated the fact that he was from China and might possibly know a form of martial art. Well he certainly was about the wax the floor with this one dude's face. I don't think the kid from China knew what the other kids were saying to him. He just saw that he was being surrounded and laughed at, survival mode kicked in. I seriously don't think the other kid was going to fight him. He just wanted attention. He was about to earn a butt whooping, though.

for 2 years I went to a mixed school. Some people went out of their way to intergrate but most others stayed to themselves....all sides of the fence

Sad part was ( and this is not to start another debate you all!!) because the school was located in a mostly white (and poor area) and just recently integrated in the late 70's and early 80's...there was still some resentment about us coming and being in the area to go to this school.

Some of the stores there actually refused our busness so we had to pick and choose where to go. Some went as far as jacking up prices of candy just to keep us out.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Sad part was ( and this is not to start another debate you all!!) because the school was located in a mostly white (and poor area) and just recently integrated in the late 70's and early 80's...there was still some resentment about us coming and being in the area to go to this school.

You know how I hate disclaimers. Let adults receive, process, and respond to information however they choose.

This isn't material for debate, anyway. Resentment and resistance to integration happens everyday all over the country. Then and now. Chief Justice John Roberts' latest decision is just one example of how any excuse can be used to not support integration efforts.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You know how I hate disclaimers. Let adults receive, process, and respond to information however they choose.

This isn't material for debate, anyway. Resentment and resistance to integration happens everyday all over the country. Then and now. Chief Justice John Roberts' latest decision is just one example of how any excuse can be used to not support integration efforts.

sigh don't remind me....


whose idea was it to let justices serve for life?

[Kevlar281]

Figured I'd stick this here...

MONROE, La. (AP) — Police say one of the teenagers arrested in the "Jena Six" case has been taken to the hospital after shooting himself in the chest...Wooten believes Bell was upset over media coverage of his arrest last week on a shoplifting charge.

Link: To Full AP Article

[AOII Angel]

That's a shame. I know how people in Jena and Monroe think. This will not help matters in the least!

[PhiGam]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1024/p...op.html?page=1

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1024/p...op.html?page=1

Old article. I say the truth lies between this article and the other news reports. Never trust one source.

You'd be hard pressed to find an informed person who really cares about the Jena 6 anymore. Wasted civil rights and rallying effort, as far as many are concerned.

Michael Bell has delusions of celebrity and newsworthiness. It is unfortunate that the "Jena 6" will go down in history. I hadn't heard of his shoplifting attempt. And this shooting incident is an MSN news blip of the caliber of the man who wrote a bank robbery note on his pay stub.