Ethnic diversity: North vs. South

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I agree with the thought that the longer your family has been in the states the more likely that you're not ethnic any more. But I do want to remind people that when your family has been in the states for a long time your last name is a less dependable indicator of ethnicity.

For example, my last name is English. Most of my ethnic heritage is actually German. Even then there's some fuzzyness if my great great grandfather truly was Bavarian or French. He was the last immigrant that we're aware of and he was still here in time to enlist in the Civil War! Most of his daughters moved to the South. One even ran off and married a Cuban before divorcing and settling in Atlanta! The point is, names mean nothing these days.

eta: Drole kind of beat to my point.

Lol, great minds think alike

[princesa85]

hi my name is rosa and i am a pnm. i dont know if i am suppose to be posting on this board but i just really wanted to comment on this topic.i am currently attending school in ga but will be transferring to school in texas in the spring. i am african american and hispanic and do plan to participate in rush in the spring if the school i end up in has informal if not in the fall as a jr. i love phc sororities! i never had the desire to go the nphc route at all, despite the fact that i have many family members who are alums.
i think alot of the reason minorities think twice about going the phc route is because of incidents that tend to make people think that all organizations in the phc and ifc are like. such as orgs. that throw parties making fun of races, stories in the news of girls not getting bids because of being black etc. also there is the issue of alienation on both sides.at the school that im attending our greeks have an event open to everyone so we can see all the greeks on campus.they bbq and all, its really nice well the nphc orgs. didnt want to come and be apart of it so they didnt take part. a few did come and stand across the quad and watch. a friend of mine who is recruitment chair for a phc asked me why they didnt want to come over and be with everyone else i told her if they wanted to be ignorant thats them . during this event i went to talk to one sorority that i really wanted to join and the girls wouldnt even talk to me. i wanted to get a info sheet and they all made this face. that hurt me but i was like ok well there is 5 more orgs. to look at. and the girls were everything i had expected. nice, friendly, i felt totally comfortable.......... after this event(i was the only black girl to attend this event period... and i go to a school thats half black half white) one of my friends who is in an nphc and other of minority friends asked me about going to this and making a big deal out of it. i was being made to feel like i was being a traitor to my whole entire race because i didnt want to join a nphc, and was considering phc. people actually started going around saying i would rather be around whites than my own people. i know many people who have had similar to this happen and have not looked twice at phc because of it .Another thing is the process. nphc and mcg's latino greeks have membership intake. nphc is really selective and secretive about even getting "on line" but you go through this process where u really get to know who is gonna be your sister before you are even initiated(if u get initiated). latino greeks have intrest groups where for a whole semester you are with other girls who want to join fufilling various requirements such as community service,planning events ,etc. then if selected will go through the same "on line " process. phc has one - two weeks and then if you get a bid then your in. Alot of ppl feel that you dont really get to know the organization or its members well enough that way to make a decision thats for life.......

anyways i just wanted to give some insight from the other side. theres so much that aids in the decision of joining any organization when your a minority (some know when there in high school what they want to join).and i think the phc's in some places do an awesome job some not so good . ..... but dont give up!! because you convinced me! and if i do end up receiving a bid when i rush, i plan to work with my org. to help better recruite minorities . sorry this is so long but if u ever have any questions or are curious to hear my ideas on things you could do that would appeal to minorities or wanna test you ideas on me i would be willing to give you an honest unbiased opinion

[Sistermadly]

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I agree with the thought that the longer your family has been in the states the more likely that you're not ethnic any more.

I'm thinking this is really only an option for people who are of European stock. At some point in American history, folks of European descent were just lumped together under the more generic "white" banner, and therefore they may be less likely to identify with their original ethnic heritage.

But for those of us of a duskier hue, it becomes a little more difficult to disassociate oneself from your ethnic heritage. Like I said earlier, my folks have been in the US since at least 1800, and I still consider myself Black.

People of color can assimilate into a culture, but unless they intermarry with whites and "bleach out" (for lack of a better term), they can't ever really stop being ethnic.

[SoCalGirl]

I agree with your point that skin color ultimately wins out. 'Cause just cause you're black it doesn't mean you don't have European roots and just cause you're white it doesn't mean that none of your ancestors came from Africa.

Plus with being black in America I honestly think that there's an even quicker tendency to assume an undefined African slave history. My best friend's father's side of the family is from Antigua so there's no American slave history there. Two guys I work with are black but their fathers are from Panama. Again, no American slave history. I think it would suck to grow up in the US learning "all your ancestors" came from slavery when you know full well they didn't!

[shinerbock]

In my experience, the NPHC groups just aren't as present at some of the SEC schools. You know they exist, but they just really don't have that much involvement in the "greek community"

[poeticace]

Originally Posted by princesa85

hi my name is rosa and i am a pnm. i dont know if i am suppose to be posting on this board but i just really wanted to comment on this topic.i am currently attending school in ga but will be transferring to school in texas in the spring. i am african american and hispanic and do plan to participate in rush in the spring if the school i end up in has informal if not in the fall as a jr. i love phc sororities! i never had the desire to go the nphc route at all, despite the fact that i have many family members who are alums.
i think alot of the reason minorities think twice about going the phc route is because of incidents that tend to make people think that all organizations in the phc and ifc are like. such as orgs. that throw parties making fun of races, stories in the news of girls not getting bids because of being black etc. also there is the issue of alienation on both sides.at the school that im attending our greeks have an event open to everyone so we can see all the greeks on campus.they bbq and all, its really nice well the nphc orgs. didnt want to come and be apart of it so they didnt take part. a few did come and stand across the quad and watch. a friend of mine who is recruitment chair for a phc asked me why they didnt want to come over and be with everyone else i told her if they wanted to be ignorant thats them . during this event i went to talk to one sorority that i really wanted to join and the girls wouldnt even talk to me. i wanted to get a info sheet and they all made this face. that hurt me but i was like ok well there is 5 more orgs. to look at. and the girls were everything i had expected. nice, friendly, i felt totally comfortable.......... after this event(i was the only black girl to attend this event period... and i go to a school thats half black half white) one of my friends who is in an nphc and other of minority friends asked me about going to this and making a big deal out of it. i was being made to feel like i was being a traitor to my whole entire race because i didnt want to join a nphc, and was considering phc. people actually started going around saying i would rather be around whites than my own people. i know many people who have had similar to this happen and have not looked twice at phc because of it .Another thing is the process. nphc and mcg's latino greeks have membership intake. nphc is really selective and secretive about even getting "on line" but you go through this process where u really get to know who is gonna be your sister before you are even initiated(if u get initiated). latino greeks have intrest groups where for a whole semester you are with other girls who want to join fufilling various requirements such as community service,planning events ,etc. then if selected will go through the same "on line " process. phc has one - two weeks and then if you get a bid then your in. Alot of ppl feel that you dont really get to know the organization or its members well enough that way to make a decision thats for life.......

anyways i just wanted to give some insight from the other side. theres so much that aids in the decision of joining any organization when your a minority (some know when there in high school what they want to join).and i think the phc's in some places do an awesome job some not so good . ..... but dont give up!! because you convinced me! and if i do end up receiving a bid when i rush, i plan to work with my org. to help better recruite minorities . sorry this is so long but if u ever have any questions or are curious to hear my ideas on things you could do that would appeal to minorities or wanna test you ideas on me i would be willing to give you an honest unbiased opinion

Okay, I kind of understand what you're getting at here, but I have some problems with some of your thinking/assumptions. The greek event where the NPHC didn't wanna go - even though you say they were invited, you don't know the reasons as to why they chose not to participate, don't assume it was from ignorance. You are not a member of those orgs, so you (nor I) won't ever really know why they chose not to show up - but for you to assume it was simply them being ignorant shows a bit of naviety/ignorance on your part.

Also, to clarify, the NPHC orgs have a membership intake process - that is the official term they use once they elected to get rid of pledging (& make it illegal). Latin & multicultural greeks have what most call an intake process. A one-word difference, but the M.I.P. phrase is something especially (I believe exclusively) for the NPHC. The conotations of the different words mean very different things.

Just trying to clarify it for you.

[princesa85]

Originally Posted by poeticace

Okay, I kind of understand what you're getting at here, but I have some problems with some of your thinking/assumptions. The greek event where the NPHC didn't wanna go - even though you say they were invited, you don't know the reasons as to why they chose not to participate, don't assume it was from ignorance. You are not a member of those orgs, so you (nor I) won't ever really know why they chose not to show up - but for you to assume it was simply them being ignorant shows a bit of naviety/ignorance on your part.

Also, to clarify, the NPHC orgs have a membership intake process - that is the official term they use once they elected to get rid of pledging (& make it illegal). Latin & multicultural greeks have what most call an intake process. A one-word difference, but the M.I.P. phrase is something especially (I believe exclusively) for the NPHC. The conotations of the different words mean very different things.

Just trying to clarify it for you.

i wasnt trying to come across as ignorant i was told by several friends who are nphc memembers why they didnt want to come... but at the same time i think you are right i really cant speak for them. its a hard situation to explain the way i want to explain it without knowing the school. greek life here is very segregated for the most part and its just alot of really bad tension and tons of stuff... i just hope it gets better but anyways i really do appreciate the clarification because i wasnt aware of that difference in the orgs process.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Sistermadly

Well, there were Scotch-Irish slaveowners who owned my ancestors and gave me my last name, but it's not like I celebrate Robbie Burns and St. Patrick's Day.

(My father's side of the family can trace its roots back to early 1800s Georgia. Even though we're not white, I'd say that makes us pretty darned Southern.)

My family name is possibly Jewish-Irish-Cherokee(?) whose slaveowners were of the Bruce Plantation in Alabama and migrated to Quincy, Florida. And that's my father side. My mother's side is Georgia and her genetic father is full-blooded Irish, but that is not what is stated on her birth certificate.

Hayle my birth certificate states "NEGRO" for definition of race.

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I agree with your point that skin color ultimately wins out. 'Cause just cause you're black it doesn't mean you don't have European roots and just cause you're white it doesn't mean that none of your ancestors came from Africa.

Plus with being black in America I honestly think that there's an even quicker tendency to assume an undefined African slave history. My best friend's father's side of the family is from Antigua so there's no American slave history there. Two guys I work with are black but their fathers are from Panama. Again, no American slave history. I think it would suck to grow up in the US learning "all your ancestors" came from slavery when you know full well they didn't!

To EVERYONE:

Some of that is correct. If a "darker hue" with African features says all their family comes from Central and South America with some Carribean roots possible arrived from Africa as slaves nearly 500 years ago. The issue is most of these countries WON their freedom from Slavery in the 1750's--i.e. Haiti... And their whole culture is that of freedom.

Slavery in the United States ended theoretically in 1865, but there was a issue of Jim Crow laws with segregation that theorectically ended in 1968 after Martin Luther King was assassinated.

So when we start talking about getting along while there are those who lived during this ugly chapter and history of the United States that was evident after Hurricane Katrina, suggests we have a very long way to go...

Should we be done with this after 40-odd years? Really? Or are we all being impatient with this instant gratification?

Rather than slamming me because you disagree and decide to deride and debase me, can you argue your points as to why you disagree?

Given that we have young people on GC and we have been asked to present ourselves accordingly, internet hatred with race wars are rather useless and does not increase our knowledge on this discussion.

[kdonline]

Originally Posted by alum

Now I want to see the NM Lists of the flagship Florida schools to see if that is accurate.

"Flagship schools" - let's take UF/FSU..
You'll still find traditionally Jewish women pledging the traditionally Jewish sororities... but rarely any crossover.

But if you talk FIU, the NPC sororities are probably 95% hispanic; many of them were born in other countries but moved as young children.. or they're first generation Americans.

[PenguinTrax]

Originally Posted by kdonline

"Flagship schools" - let's take UF/FSU..
You'll still find traditionally Jewish women pledging the traditionally Jewish sororities... but rarely any crossover.

But if you talk FIU, the NPC sororities are probably 95% hispanic; many of them were born in other countries but moved as young children.. or they're first generation Americans.

Actually, this is not quite true at FSU. SDT has only been on campus a couple of years and they are only about 50-60% Jewish. There are other groups on campus with high percentages of Jewish members, especially AChiO which has traditionally been the 'nondenominational' choice for non-Christian members.

[AXIDplace4me]

Both sides of my family have been in the states before they were states. circa 1650s. We really don't have much of an idea except for educated guesses of where our family came from. We have one last name in the family that we believe has been changed from a German last name, but we really don't know. Most of my family started in the north and migrated south early on. My dad's family is from western NC and eastern TN while mom's family is from SC. I am sure the spelling and even the pronunciation of our names has changed since the 1600s.

[Sistermadly]

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

I think it would suck to grow up in the US learning "all your ancestors" came from slavery when you know full well they didn't! [/COLOR]

My best friend's family arrived here as free people of color back in the late 1700s-early 1800s. None of his relatives were ever slaves. I think this is more common than people realize, and yeah, I think it's seriously misleading to assume that just because a person's of African descent that their ancestors ever shared the enslavement experience.

[Sistermadly]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Hayle my birth certificate states "NEGRO" for definition of race.

It's nice to know I'm not the only one.

I remember when my husband (then fiance) saw my birth certificate for the first time. Poor little naive Canadian boy, he was so shocked.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

My family name is possibly Jewish-Irish-Cherokee(?) whose slaveowners were of the Bruce Plantation in Alabama and migrated to Quincy, Florida. And that's my father side. My mother's side is Georgia and her genetic father is full-blooded Irish, but that is not what is stated on her birth certificate.

Hayle my birth certificate states "NEGRO" for definition of race.

To EVERYONE:

Some of that is correct. If a "darker hue" with African features says all their family comes from Central and South America with some Carribean roots possible arrived from Africa as slaves nearly 500 years ago. The issue is most of these countries WON their freedom from Slavery in the 1750's--i.e. Haiti... And their whole culture is that of freedom.

Slavery in the United States ended theoretically in 1865, but there was a issue of Jim Crow laws with segregation that theorectically ended in 1968 after Martin Luther King was assassinated.

So when we start talking about getting along while there are those who lived during this ugly chapter and history of the United States that was evident after Hurricane Katrina, suggests we have a very long way to go...

Should we be done with this after 40-odd years? Really? Or are we all being impatient with this instant gratification?

Rather than slamming me because you disagree and decide to deride and debase me, can you argue your points as to why you disagree?

Given that we have young people on GC and we have been asked to present ourselves accordingly, internet hatred with race wars are rather useless and does not increase our knowledge on this discussion.

Originally Posted by Sistermadly

My best friend's family arrived here as free people of color back in the late 1700s-early 1800s. None of his relatives were ever slaves. I think this is more common than people realize, and yeah, I think it's seriously misleading to assume that just because a person's of African descent that their ancestors ever shared the enslavement experience.

You both make excellent points. We do have a lot of young people here, and it makes more sense to educate them instead of ignoring the obvious. I get a lot of information on AA genealogy; if either of y'all or anyone you know is interested, I'd be happy to pass it along. If nothing else, Alex Haley proved that genealogy was for everyone, not just snobs.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Sistermadly

My best friend's family arrived here as free people of color back in the late 1700s-early 1800s. None of his relatives were ever slaves. I think this is more common than people realize, and yeah, I think it's seriously misleading to assume that just because a person's of African descent that their ancestors ever shared the enslavement experience.

Another irony is that there may be 2-3 "lighter complexion" non-African ancestors that somehow co-mingled and produced offspring that wound up "darker hued". Then over time, that darker complexion became dominant in the rest of the progenitors... Then ever 1-2 generations, the lighter complexion pops up.

It is called Epigenetics and the generalized skin coloring genetics and systems may be under that level of control.

An interesting fictional account book is "Black Like Me" that all the current Black writers of the day severely criticized it...