Ethnic diversity: North vs. South

[Taualumna]

Question: Are people in the south less likely to identify with their non-British Isles ancestry than people in other parts of the US? Or is it just immigration patterns?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Question: Are people in the south less likely to identify with their non-British Isles ancestry than people in other parts of the US? Or is it just immigration patterns?

I don't know about that. My Illinois-born grandfather's parents and older siblings came over on the boat from Germany - but my grandpa didn't have any spesific German customs or anything...I don't even think he knew more than 20 German words. Well, he probably did "back in the day", but his family assimilated quickly.

[VandalSquirrel]

I would think that the presence of HBCUs would affect statistical measurements at schools in the south. Out west (not on the coast) our system is sometimes as diverse as the local population, but many schools have thriving Latino Greek orgs. or MCGLOs.

As for names, my last name is Frisian technically, but was considered German when disembarking the boat (due to where the boat came from), and it is actually Dutch. I think we all know about the issues at Ellis island with the word Deutsch and Dutch. But that is all somewhat pointless, since it says WASP in the box that says "race or color" on my birth certificate (not making that up).

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I don't know about that. My Illinois-born grandfather's parents and older siblings came over on the boat from Germany - but my grandpa didn't have any spesific German customs or anything...I don't even think he knew more than 20 German words. Well, he probably did "back in the day", but his family assimilated quickly.

Was this around WWI? Lots of people of German descent hid their German-ness at that time. Here in Canada, the of Berlin, Ontario even changed its name to Kitchener.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Question: Are people in the south less likely to identify with their non-British Isles ancestry than people in other parts of the US? Or is it just immigration patterns?

I'm not sure what you mean about it being "just immigration patterns." I know plenty of people in the South (and in my own family) that readily identify with (for example) German, French (especially Huguenot), Dutch, Italian and even Lebanese heritage. These backgrounds can be especially noticeable in matters of religion (wherever the Germans settled, for example, many old Lutheran churches will be found) and food.

But in so many instances, the families have been here for so long that they all converge in a generic European Southerness.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I'm not sure what you mean about it being "just immigration patterns." I know plenty of people in the South (and in my own family) that readily identify with (for example) German, French (especially Huguenot), Dutch, Italian and even Lebanese heritage. These backgrounds can be especially noticeable in matters of religion (wherever the Germans settled, for example, many old Lutheran churches will be found) and food.

But in so many instances, the families have been here for so long that they all converge in a generic European Southerness.

Immigration patterns=countries people tend to come from/have ancestry from. For example, lots of people from Chicago are of Polish descent. Lots of Irish in Boston. etc...

I also don't think one necessarily becomes more "generic" the longer one is in a country. Sure, people integrate/assimilate to a degree, but later-wave immigrants seem to have a closer connection with the old country, even generations after they've settled. For example, Italian-Americans will probably continue to identify as Italian-American for generations to come.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Immigration patterns=countries people tend to come from/have ancestry from. For example, lots of people from Chicago are of Polish descent. Lots of Irish in Boston. etc...

I guess I wasn't clear enough -- I know what immigration patterns are; I wasn't sure what you meant by your question.

I also don't think one necessarily becomes more "generic" the longer one is in a country. Sure, people integrate/assimilate to a degree, but later-wave immigrants seem to have a closer connection with the old country, even generations after they've settled. For example, Italian-Americans will probably continue to identify as Italian-American for generations to come.

Maybe, maybe not. I think you have to remember that, in regard to immigration patterns, later-wave immigrants have generally not come to the South in large groups, except for those from Latin America. Just to name a few examples, there have never, as far as I can remember, been large-scale immigragations of Poles, Italians, or Irish (not Ulster-Scots/Scots-Irish) to the South. (There are exceptions, like Greeks in Tarpon Springs and elsewhere.)

The large waves of German, French or other groups to the South were, for the most part, centuries ago, hence the loss of the ___-American identity and the prevalence of a more generic Southern identity.

[AOII Angel]

As someone raised in the deep south, not many people identify with anything other than being southern. I have German, Swedish, Italian and a small bit of English blood, but I and my family don't specifically identify with any of them. White ethnic groups in Louisiana are more locally defined...as in cajun or creole if they even apply. We have a lot of French names in LA which is a little different from the rest of the south, but Polish and Czech names are practically unheardof here.

[REE1993]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

As someone raised in the deep south, not many people identify with anything other than being southern. I have German, Swedish, Italian and a small bit of English blood, but I and my family don't specifically identify with any of them.

I agree with this statement. My husband is from "the south". Now, he has blood lines from all over Europe and even native American, but he grew up all over the south (military brat). I am in New England, and half italian, and a quarter each Hungarian and Lithuanian. But I grew up in an Italian household (my dad is off the boat). People ask - I say I am Italian.

Growing up, kids identified each other by their heritage. Even the Catholic churches/schools were different - you had the Italian, the Spanish, the Irish, the Russian.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by REE1993

I agree with this statement. My husband is from "the south". Now, he has blood lines from all over Europe and even native American, but he grew up all over the south (military brat). I am in New England, and half italian, and a quarter each Hungarian and Lithuanian. But I grew up in an Italian household (my dad is off the boat). People ask - I say I am Italian.

Growing up, kids identified each other by their heritage. Even the Catholic churches/schools were different - you had the Italian, the Spanish, the Irish, the Russian.

The first Catholic churches/schools in my hometown were the same way (although it's all a bit before my time) St. Patrick Church was the first, but the Germans didn't want to worship with the Irish so St. James was right behind them. (Ironically they're now merging to form one parish). It seems so weird to me that people would go to that trouble, but it's a product of the times.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

As someone raised in the deep south, not many people identify with anything other than being southern.

Although I do not live in the Deep South, I would agree that this is my experience. The one exception I see rather frequently with many Southerners is identification with Scottish heritage.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Although I do not live in the Deep South, I would agree that this is my experience. The one exception I see rather frequently with many Southerners is identification with Scottish heritage.

I guess it just depends on specific local history with things like that in the South. But overall, yeah, nothing like other places in the US. People came over earlier, and the willing part of that came pretty much exclusively from Northern European places.

I'm Georgian - my heritage is a mismash of English, Irish, Scottish, German, Cherokee, Creek, and who knows what else thrown in for good measure. There's not really enough of any one thing to identify with very strongly (although of course I'm Irish on St. Patrick's Day ), and I'd say this is typical for most Southerners.

[Sistermadly]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Question: Are people in the south less likely to identify with their non-British Isles ancestry than people in other parts of the US? Or is it just immigration patterns?

Well, there were Scotch-Irish slaveowners who owned my ancestors and gave me my last name, but it's not like I celebrate Robbie Burns and St. Patrick's Day.

(My father's side of the family can trace its roots back to early 1800s Georgia. Even though we're not white, I'd say that makes us pretty darned Southern.)

[Drolefille]

My dad's mom's family kept the German name during both World Wars but they're all farmers in Kansas so I doubt they had neighbors to harass them about it.

Just a thought about ethnicity, some of it could be masked due to marriage. My last name is English although my mom is 100% Italian in her heritage. Her family's names are all very clearly Italian, but since she's female, the last name is lost despite the fact that we're very Italian (although less so than my grandmother).

I do know that my grandmother (a DZ) dealt with some discrimination with regards to sororities, her sister never joined one because she felt discriminated against and I would bet my nonna's rush was different as a daughter of immigrants than as someone who's been here since the Revolution.

/my thoughts, they ramble.

[SoCalGirl]

I agree with the thought that the longer your family has been in the states the more likely that you're not ethnic any more. But I do want to remind people that when your family has been in the states for a long time your last name is a less dependable indicator of ethnicity.

For example, my last name is English. Most of my ethnic heritage is actually German. Even then there's some fuzzyness if my great great grandfather truly was Bavarian or French. He was the last immigrant that we're aware of and he was still here in time to enlist in the Civil War! Most of his daughters moved to the South. One even ran off and married a Cuban before divorcing and settling in Atlanta! The point is, names mean nothing these days.

eta: Drole kind of beat to my point.