Vick indicted in dog fighting case

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I don't think so. I mean, if two people rob the house next to yours, and the owner comes out with a gun, and by the time he shoots them, they're all on your property, you couldn't be held responsible. I doubt there's any way that they could make a law that was spesific enough to cover appropriate/inappropriate applications.

That's what I'm wondering though, I was under the impression that if, lets say you host a poker game every week. One week you have other plans but you tell your buddies to use your house anyway. All of a sudden the cops bust the game for illegal gambling (I know totally happens all the time). I would think you'd be liable even though there's no proof you knew about the illegal gambling.

Does it come down to what your buddies say you knew? Same with Vick, if those who actually did the fighting said "he knew" is that enough? (I suppose it's enough for conspiracy at least...

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

That's what I'm wondering though, I was under the impression that if, lets say you host a poker game every week. One week you have other plans but you tell your buddies to use your house anyway. All of a sudden the cops bust the game for illegal gambling (I know totally happens all the time). I would think you'd be liable even though there's no proof you knew about the illegal gambling.

Does it come down to what your buddies say you knew? Same with Vick, if those who actually did the fighting said "he knew" is that enough? (I suppose it's enough for conspiracy at least...

The bolded part is where your analogy breaks down - you're clearly responsible, in some measure, for activities that you condone or order on your property, regardless of whether you're there.

Remember, the indictment is not going to list all of the government's evidence against Vick - there are many reports of eyewitness accounts placing Vick at the scene of fighting, and of him moving dogs personally to other states to wager and fight (hence, Federal case) . . . the 'missing link' in the case that litAKAtor noted won't necessarily be in the initial indictment/complaint (which I'm sure she knows, but is worth pointing out).

Given those reports, I'm not so sure the media coverage has been as heavy-handed as some claim - I think it's been surprisingly fair, honestly.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

The bolded part is where your analogy breaks down - you're clearly responsible, in some measure, for activities that you condone or order on your property, regardless of whether you're there.

Remember, the indictment is not going to list all of the government's evidence against Vick - there are many reports of eyewitness accounts placing Vick at the scene of fighting, and of him moving dogs personally to other states to wager and fight (hence, Federal case) . . . the 'missing link' in the case that litAKAtor noted won't necessarily be in the initial indictment/complaint (which I'm sure she knows, but is worth pointing out).

Given those reports, I'm not so sure the media coverage has been as heavy-handed as some claim - I think it's been surprisingly fair, honestly.

However, you'd say that you let them use the house but that you didn't know they were going to play for money. (Much like Vick knew there were people and dogs at his house, just not what they were doing in this hypothetical)

I really haven't followed it closely enough to know all the details, I was just operating under the assumption that there wasn't anything tying him to it other than owning the property for the sake of discussion and my curiousity.

[OneTimeSBX]

fyi: it is a regular circus down here in richmond...they're closing a whole street down from 6a to 6p for the media that is coming in to be at the courthouse...i hope this is quick and precise!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by OneTimeSBX

fyi: it is a regular circus down here in richmond...they're closing a whole street down from 6a to 6p for the media that is coming in to be at the courthouse...i hope this is quick and precise!

That is wishful thinking if I've ever heard it. Good luck

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Remember, the indictment is not going to list all of the government's evidence against Vick - there are many reports of eyewitness accounts placing Vick at the scene of fighting, and of him moving dogs personally to other states to wager and fight (hence, Federal case) . . . the 'missing link' in the case that litAKAtor noted won't necessarily be in the initial indictment/complaint (which I'm sure she knows, but is worth pointing out).

Thanks . .this is true. All of the information is not and won't be in the indictment, but I am hoping that have some significant evidence. And as you know "eyewitness accounts" are always questionable. It will remain to be seen how much they really saw or whether it was just what they "heard" Actually, I have not heard of these reports about him moving dogs only him sending money for dogs to be purchased in other states (via the indictment) which were subsequently used in dog fights in both VA and NC. Apparently there is a Federal Statute that makes dog fighting, and the gaming of it, illegal (that is my recollection of the indictment, but I could be wrong).

Given those reports, I'm not so sure the media coverage has been as heavy-handed as some claim - I think it's been surprisingly fair, honestly.

I would have to disagree when you look at it in relation to the NBA referee situation. Again, that is far more egregious in my eyes vs. Vick and dog fighting. . . but that is jmo.

[AKA_Monet]

But a Federal Grand Jury indicting you is one thing vs. local po-po rolling up in the house busting you for illegal activities...

There would have been neighborhood complaints just due to the nighttime noise ordinances during these alleged "dog fights".

And it is not about 2 male dogs fighting to the death. It is a matter of improper disposal of carcases that breeds maggots and flies among several other things. Not to mention brutal fight wounds exposing both the jugular vein and the carotid artery--which means there was a large sum of blood--which means that makes it a "biohazard"... Moreover, I KNOW he did not have a licensed veterinarian, so pain and distress was NEVER allieviated with Bunoproprine or other vet cleared NSAIDS relievers. And special K is a controlled substance.

The breeding requires a 2-3 dog per kennel max with hay. Only 1 litter per breeding, with special Purina breeder chow for dogs... And kennel changing out occurs 2-3 per week. Moreover, all dogs MUST have strong environmental enrichement due to their social behavior. No matter if Pit Bulls are psycho or not, the fact is if you DON'T walk them or let them play, YOU WILL make them go crazy...

Now, I know Vick may be a dog lover and breed them. But I skeeriousllllyyyy doubt he was following AVMA guidelines, much less AKC or Pit Bull club guidelines.

The other issue is he crossed these "questionably illegal" animals over State Lines... Pit Bulls are illegal in SOME states. That means to me he lacked knowledge of the permits, licensure and papers. Whether he actually did it himself of that was his business, his issue was HE was ultimately responsible for the health and welfare of the dogs. And that is SPCA requirements...

He dayum lucky he was not a researcher because he would have been crucified...

It does make me wonder though, some of these things that are happening to him--was he set up for this fall from grace?

[UGAalum94]

Not that this is part of the indictment because I haven't even tried to read it, but don't they also have the cooperative witness who watched Vick retrieve cash to pay the owner of a dog who had beaten one of their kennels dogs?

And a video of him at a fight being greeted by name?

I mean, it's a little more than just buying and breeding pit bulls.