Vick indicted in dog fighting case

[jitterbug13]

Originally Posted by lyrelyre

Who thought a couple years ago that Marcus would be the classier of the two? Not me.

I remember when Marcus kept getting trouble and a lot was being done to try to cover up Michael's incidents (i.e. Ron Mexico). I knew it was only a matter of time before they got something big on him.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by kstar

Ah, the nature versus nurture argument. While the breed's original purpose was to breed for gameness and pit fighting characteristics, they still need training to fight.

My pittie and her littermates were rescued from a fighting house. Tasha is the sweetest thing and is submissive to every dog she meets, while a littermate of hers had to be adopted out to a home with no other dogs because she will try to kill ANY other animal she sees that is smaller or near her size. It was heartbreaking because Tasha wasn't taking to her training, so her original owner was starving her to make her mean, while her more aggressive littermates were getting steaks. Didn't work. Does this mean her littermate was born aggressive? No, it means that they were more open to the training and treatment of their former owner.

There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

I will have to find the original article but I am sure it is PubMed, but due to the inbreeding of pit bulls, they have a mutation in the testosterone locus, or possibly the receptor. Meaning the regulation of testosterone is unstable in male pitbulls. In female pitbulls, it probably is not a big deal until she gets past her breeding.

Yes, this aggressive behavior must take training. But how OLD ARE THEY?

Originally Posted by KSig RC

So . . . it was born more open to the training? Or did the dog make a decision to be more open? Either way, you're kind of contradictory (either nature plays a huge role, or there are in fact 'bad' dogs) - not that it's at all relevant to the thread, it's clear Pit Bulls can be extremely good pets under the right circumstances. I'm not sure why you go beyond that, at all.

The dogs are more easily to be trained for aggression. The research scientists do not know why this may occur. Learning is a part of the norepinephrine system and gross aggression is a part of the dopamine system in the brain. Is is possible that teststerone to the hippocampus and pituitary could affect these two systems that are maybe unstable.

Pitbulls could be sweet dogs, but when they age, all those processes may be activated if not taught control. Similar processes occurs in humans.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Pitbulls could be sweet dogs, but when they age, all those processes may be activated if not taught control. Similar processes occurs in humans.

[hijack]
One thing I've always wondered about was how the children of serial killers end up. Are there any studies following up on them? If so, how have the majority of them turned out?

[/hijack]

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by honeychile

[hijack]
One thing I've always wondered about was how the children of serial killers end up. Are there any studies following up on them? If so, how have the majority of them turned out?

[/hijack]

No one has examined them because they usually kill themselves before authorities find them.

There were studies lonnnnggggg time ago on convicts. Because the doctors and others failed to get informed consent, then they caused human rights violations.

What I remember from reading some of those 1950's/1960's studies, was there were quite a few criminals that had the YY chromosome arrangement...

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

No one has examined them because they usually kill themselves before authorities find them.

There were studies lonnnnggggg time ago on convicts. Because the doctors and others failed to get informed consent, then they caused human rights violations.

What I remember from reading some of those 1950's/1960's studies, was there were quite a few criminals that had the YY chromosome arrangement...

I know about the YY chromosome, but I was more interested in people like Ted Bundy's daughter, or others like her. It would be an interesting study...

[UGAalum94]

I think there are studies about the children of criminals generally being more likely to go to prison, which makes sense because you'd get some combination of nature and nurture. But I don't think I've ever read about with serial killers.

For some reason, a couple of years ago, I read a lot of books about profilers. I think it was a combination of watching too much true crime TV and hearing a really interesting NPR report about some young teenage boys in Chicago being wrongly convicted (some even confessed to a crime they didn't commit), and what had put them in the suspect pool was a profile created based on the Central Park jogger. So I made the mistake of reading several books about some of the earliest FBI profilers and their big cases. (I don't think I slept for about three months because what I read scared me so bad.)

But the early profilers did conduct interviews with any serial killers that were still alive, and they did seem to find patterns in their lives and behaviors. And I think that if they noticed a pattern of similar behavior in their children, it would have been mentioned.

They did find that torturing animals as children was pretty much universal.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by AOII_LB93

This is disgusting...to treat animals in such a way is foul and evil. I hope all involved are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If in fact Vick was involved, I hope that his money doesn't get him out of it.

I agree

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I know about the YY chromosome, but I was more interested in people like Ted Bundy's daughter, or others like her. It would be an interesting study...

I am usure is Ted Bundy had a defined disabiling psychosis transmitted genetically, i.e. Parkinson's or Schizophrenia. I think his psychosis was purely environmental--I think he was physically and sexually abused as a child. Most children that grow up that way, become deranged sexual predators that serial kill, unless caught at an early age and heavily treated. Something about the sexual abuse that makes them confused and angry with themselves causing maladaptations to function in "normal soceity"...

These kinds of things ARE NOT seen in the Animal Kingdom. Animals normally fight each other to the death due to way too much hormones flying around associated with maleness. NOT ALL animals, but a lot of them. The research focuses on sex--those males that have sex with everything on site vs. the pair bond. And in some cases, switching the neurohormonal regulation in the voles and rats, makes the lab animals prefer the same sex...

Pitbull males even if untrained will fight after 3-6 months of age. You just keep them separated.

What Vick did from my readings, is grossly atrocious. PETA should have his head on a platter rather than ours...

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by kstar

Not surprising if you know anything about PETA. PETA kills more animals than they save, and have statements on the record that indicate that they are for the extinction of certain dog breeds, pit bulls being one of them.

Add that to the list of foolish things you say that don't make sense. If you create a breed that bleeds to death within 1 year, most people would think that you should ban that breed. These dogs were bred to kill and fight. Preventing this time of genetic manipulation is perfectly acceptable.

-Rudey
--No wonder you got dumped.

[squirrely girl]

so has nike dropped him yet? i'd rather see that happen. screw the nfl. the real money is in endorsements.

i'm just so happy to see that EVERYBODY is upset about this. its probably a good thing that certain offenses are universally unacceptable.

- m

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

so has nike dropped him yet? i'd rather see that happen. screw the nfl. the real money is in endorsements.

i'm just so happy to see that EVERYBODY is upset about this. its probably a good thing that certain offenses are universally unacceptable.

- m

My understanding is that Nike hasn't dropped him completely, but the shoe is on hold for now.

[AGDee]

Re: Bullfights. I saw a bullfight in Mexico City on a high school trip with my Spanish class. In 3 of the 4 matches we saw, the bull won. (The matadors weren't actually killed but 3 of them were thrown pretty far and one of them was somewhat trampled.) I don't get that sport either and opposition to it is growing, according to a recent Time magazine article.

Re: Vick. Ugh, this guy was my son's hero.. the reason he wants to be an NFL player and, specifically, a Falcons fan. I'll have to share this info with him if he hasn't heard it already. Hopefully his second dream (meterologist on the weather channel) doesn't get blasted by some idiotic behavior on Jim Cantore's part.

[SoEnchanting]

I own two pits, and so I know how sweet and devoted this breed can be. This news makes me absolutely sick.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I'll have to share this info with him if he hasn't heard it already. Hopefully his second dream (meterologist on the weather channel) doesn't get blasted by some idiotic behavior on Jim Cantore's part.

I have a former student who is in graduate school for meteorology or weather science or whatever it's called as an academic discipline. It's apparently typical for people who end up in the field to be drawn to it from a really early age.

I know that's true from some people in other fields, but think about how many kids want to veterinarians or marine biologists who don't end up doing it or the number of people who kind of happen into a particular field by process of elimination.

Not true for weather people, according to what this guy and his mom told me as he was looking into colleges. He had worked internships in the field even in high school, and pretty much everyone he met in the field had set up personal weather stations at home when they were kids and it had escalated from there.

I had never even thought that much about weather guys before knowing him.

[ZTABullwinkle]

I can say that PETA has been surprisingly quiet in this area (Hampton Roads) of Virginia. I thought for sure that they would be all over this news.