Vick indicted in dog fighting case

[squirrely girl]

not to get completely off topic, but ted bundy actually had a suprisingly normal childhood free of physical and sexual abuse.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

not to get completely off topic, but ted bundy actually had a suprisingly normal childhood free of physical and sexual abuse.

I read that his biological father was also his biological grandfather, and that he thought his mother was his sister until they moved to Washington State. There's some evidence that his grandfather molested him prior to that move - so this was all before he was three or four. I wish I could tell you the source, but it certainly wasn't the Enquirer or any rag like that.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I read that his biological father was also his biological grandfather, and that he thought his mother was his sister until they moved to Washington State. There's some evidence that his grandfather molested him prior to that move - so this was all before he was three or four. I wish I could tell you the source, but it certainly wasn't the Enquirer or any rag like that.

Wiki has the parentage issue, along with this:

In December 1987, Bundy was examined for seven hours by a professor from New York University Medical Center, Dorothy Otnow Lewis. To Lewis, Bundy described his childhood, and especially his relationship with his maternal grandparents, Samuel and Eleanor Cowell. Along with the already established description of his grandfather as a tyrannical bully, Bundy described his grandfather as a bigot who hated blacks, Italians, Catholics, and Jews. He further stated that his grandfather tortured animals, beating the family dog and swinging neighborhood cats by their tails. He also told Lewis that his grandfather, who was a deacon in his church, kept a large collection of pornography in his greenhouse where, according to relatives, Bundy and a cousin would sneak into the greenhouse for hours reading it. Family members expressed skepticism over Louise's "Jack Worthington" story of Bundy's parentage and noted that Samuel Cowell once flew into a violent rage when the subject of the boy's father came up.[88] Bundy described his grandmother as a timid and obedient wife, who was sporadically taken to hospitals to undergo shock treatment for depression.[89] Towards the end of her life, Bundy said, she became an agoraphobe.[90]

It's all cited, it's just not easy to provide the cites to here as they're print media. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy#Pathology

[NutBrnHair]

I was listening to a local sports talk radio show & got so upset, I tried to call!

The host said that the crime Vick has allegely committed is "not that bad." He said, "it's not one of the Ten Commandments...it's not as bad as murder" and that he should "not have to go to jail if convicted."

Hello! It's a felony in 50 states.

[UGAalum94]

I found this part from Bundy's entry even more interesting:

Eleanor Bundy's younger sister Julia recalled a disturbing incident with her young nephew. After lying down in the Cowells' home for a nap, Julia woke to find herself surrounded by knives from the Cowell kitchen. Three-year-old Ted was standing by the bed, smiling at her.[91]


I think that Bundy tried to manipulate some people by telling them what they wanted to hear, and that he thought there was a market for his blaming his pathology on the influence of pornography and abuse.

I'm not saying that he wasn't abused; he probably was, but there are many victims of abuse who don't end up serial killers, it seems.

But in the example above, he was three years old. I think he was messed up even then.

[Drolefille]

However, turning that around, many many serial killers have a history of abuse. It's a combination of nature and nurture IMO.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

I was listening to a local sports talk radio show & got so upset, I tried to call!

The host said that the crime Vick has allegely committed is "not that bad." He said, "it's not one of the Ten Commandments...it's not as bad as murder" and that he should "not have to go to jail if convicted."

Hello! It's a felony in 50 states.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

However, turning that around, many many serial killers have a history of abuse. It's a combination of nature and nurture IMO.

I agree - I'm just wondering aloud if:

a) Is there a genetic predisposition to violence of the worst sort and
b) How do we stop it? At what age should society give up on a violent child with the genetic predisposition towards it?