OU forced to forfeit all 2005 wins . . .

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Actually, it was a pretty good deal.

We just sold it.

Sounds like the players had a pretty good deal, too. No work and good pay.

Anyone who doesn't think this goes on at every major program in the nation is naive as heck. Hundred dollar handshakes and things of that nature happen in every program, even the small ones.

If colleges would just pay the damn athletes, we could all stop pretending this stuff doesn't really happen.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Anyone who doesn't think this goes on at every major program in the nation is naive as heck. Hundred dollar handshakes and things of that nature happen in every program, even the small ones.

If colleges would just pay the damn athletes, we could all stop pretending this stuff doesn't really happen.

I think most colleges would be happy to -- but let's all hide behind the NCAA rules a while longer.

[shinerbock]

I'd just like to see some of the nations powerhouses get their fair share. Unless you're an SEC powerhouse, it seems the NCAA is pretty hesitant.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I'd just like to see some of the nations powerhouses get their fair share. Unless you're an SEC powerhouse, it seems the NCAA is pretty hesitant.

The thing is -- SEC schools don't understand the concept of protecting their competitor schools for the sake of the conference. Instead, they incessantly investigate and report on their fellow schools.. well.. mostly Tennessee and Alabama do this to each other. When they actually do turn up some malfeasance, which is something that accompanies every single Division I school in the country, they sort of force the NCAA to act.

It's crap, but those schools bring it on themselves. Tell your alums to stop acting like douchebags. Problem solved.

[sueali]

While I do not work at an SEC program, I am an administrator for a D-I athletic department(not the institution in my signature, but I did work for their athletic department for 4 years), and I would just like to comment that Oklahoma was monitoring student-athlete employment the same way that every other school in the country is monitoring their employment, pretty much the student-athlete gets a form (that details ncaa rules, including must be paid for actual work performed and how much they will be paid) from their compliance office fills it out takes the form to their supervisor and has the supervisor sign the form acknowledging that they understand the NCAA rules.

Yes, all programs are cheating and are dirty, but sometimes it isn't because they are trying to be dirty, it is because it is nearly impossible to monitor all of the NCAA rules pertaining to the programs. I do not possibly have the time to drive around to every student-athletes place of employment and make sure they are actually showing up to work.

Oh and I am also waiting for USC to get theirs and Duke too.

[Kevin]

Does anyone else find Paul Dee being the head of the NCAA committee sort of like Syria being in charge of the UN Human Rights Committee?

Originally Posted by sueali

Oh and I am also waiting for USC to get theirs and Duke too.

Duke? For what?

And as far as this ruling, its disgustingly weak.

In my opinion, the NCAA has shown a trend from the late 80's to the present of preaching fairness and equity while acting in an inconsistent manner that only serves to protect institutions that are their cash cows. A&M had the exact same charges in the mid 90's, players working a summer job for a booster recieving payment for work not performed, and we were slapped with a year TV ban, one year post season ban and lost scholarships. We were a top 10 team going into that season, ripped off a 10-0-1 record and because of sanctions lost a run for the MNC. OU 'vacates' wins from the prior season and loses 2 scholarships, hardly equitable.

Its the EXACT same as the brouhaha over Native American mascots and nicknames. The NCAA allows Florida State to remain eligible to host playoff events with their mascot and logo, while the University of North Dakota, which has a more direct tie to Native American students, a higher NA student enrollment and more of a committment to NA education, including a Department of Indian Studies is involved in legal entanglements.

The NCAA is a joke of an organization that only seeks to keep money flowing into the coffers of its 'big name' programs and this joke of a penalty is further evidence of that.

[Kevin]

I don't know what went on at A&M. At Oklahoma, 2 scholarship athletes were paid for work not done. As soon as the team found out, the kids were dismissed from the team, the team disassociated the dealership, investigated and turned themselves in. All of the penalties handed down by the NCAA except the vacation of 2005 wins were already self-imposed.

Considering Oklahoma's proactive approach as compared to say.. USC, Ohio State, etc., I'm actually pretty shocked that the NCAA handed down any additional penalties. I don't think they would if it hadn't been for Kelvin and his overactive cell phone.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by wreckingcrew

Duke? For what?

And as far as this ruling, its disgustingly weak.

In my opinion, the NCAA has shown a trend from the late 80's to the present of preaching fairness and equity while acting in an inconsistent manner that only serves to protect institutions that are their cash cows. A&M had the exact same charges in the mid 90's, players working a summer job for a booster recieving payment for work not performed, and we were slapped with a year TV ban, one year post season ban and lost scholarships. We were a top 10 team going into that season, ripped off a 10-0-1 record and because of sanctions lost a run for the MNC. OU 'vacates' wins from the prior season and loses 2 scholarships, hardly equitable.

Its the EXACT same as the brouhaha over Native American mascots and nicknames. The NCAA allows Florida State to remain eligible to host playoff events with their mascot and logo, while the University of North Dakota, which has a more direct tie to Native American students, a higher NA student enrollment and more of a committment to NA education, including a Department of Indian Studies is involved in legal entanglements.

The NCAA is a joke of an organization that only seeks to keep money flowing into the coffers of its 'big name' programs and this joke of a penalty is further evidence of that.

I don't remember that happening to A&M in the mid 90's, but you seem to have forgotten about the quite serious NCAA violations that the A&M football program itself committed during the late 80's. Obviously the punishment laid down in the 90's was a direct result of them already being in trouble a few years earlier. Here's the direct link to the official report from the NCAA:

https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/lsdbi...ed&p_Division=

I didn't read all of it, but I definitely skimmed over the part about A&M assistant coaches giving and offering inducements to prospective student-athletes, lying to them about alleged NCAA viloations, etc. etc.

Bob Stoops was brought into OU to clean up that program and return it to a national power. He has done both, and he has done it with quite a bit of integrity. The guy turned in his own program to the NCAA and kicked off three players when it wasn't necessary to do so. He could have easily kept them on the team and waited for an NCAA investigation to decide their fate. I would be willing to be that if he had done that, OU would have gotten severe penalites. For you to call their punishment "disgustingly weak", given the circumstances, is ridiculous.

.............and this is coming from a Texas student.

[sueali]

One because I hate them and two because the NCAA looks the other way when they too commit violations. They are the NCAA's Big program for basketball, so just as everyone has been pointing out in football they usually aren't investigated or only get a slap on the hand.

Originally Posted by wreckingcrew

Duke? For what?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The thing is -- SEC schools don't understand the concept of protecting their competitor schools for the sake of the conference. Instead, they incessantly investigate and report on their fellow schools.. well.. mostly Tennessee and Alabama do this to each other. When they actually do turn up some malfeasance, which is something that accompanies every single Division I school in the country, they sort of force the NCAA to act.

It's crap, but those schools bring it on themselves. Tell your alums to stop acting like douchebags. Problem solved.

This isn't the problem. I don't care if SEC schools get in trouble, but I do care when the NCAA has USC on a silver platter and drags their feet.

Its more than just Tenn and Bama now. Well, most of it involves Bama, but LSU has for sure gotten in on it now that Saban is at UAT.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

This isn't the problem. I don't care if SEC schools get in trouble, but I do care when the NCAA has USC on a silver platter and drags their feet.

Its more than just Tenn and Bama now. Well, most of it involves Bama, but LSU has for sure gotten in on it now that Saban is at UAT.

I would think the LSU folks would just get over the Saban thing. I know.. Miles is a goober and a general embarrassment whenever he opens his mouth.. but the guy wins games and has assembled one hell of a recruiting staff. He also seems to run a pretty clean program.

That the difference though -- with OU who provided the NCAA with evidence or the SEC schools who rat out each other, the NCAA has some solid stuff to charge schools with. In the case of USC, the school has done everything in their power to deny responsibility and cover things up. That means the NCAA has no evidence of wrongdoing.

I guess that's a precedent the NCAA is comfortable with -- cover it up and you're in the clear... do the honest thing and you're getting slapped.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I would think the LSU folks would just get over the Saban thing. I know.. Miles is a goober and a general embarrassment whenever he opens his mouth.. but the guy wins games and has assembled one hell of a recruiting staff. He also seems to run a pretty clean program.

That the difference though -- with OU who provided the NCAA with evidence or the SEC schools who rat out each other, the NCAA has some solid stuff to charge schools with. In the case of USC, the school has done everything in their power to deny responsibility and cover things up. That means the NCAA has no evidence of wrongdoing.

I guess that's a precedent the NCAA is comfortable with -- cover it up and you're in the clear... do the honest thing and you're getting slapped.

Obviously LSU is against Saban, but there were also a lot of accusations made against Bama going into signing day this year.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Anyone who doesn't think this goes on at every major program in the nation is naive as heck. Hundred dollar handshakes and things of that nature happen in every program, even the small ones.

If colleges would just pay the damn athletes, we could all stop pretending this stuff doesn't really happen.

I agree - the real issue is the level of athletic department or team "awareness" (more likely influence) . . . really, the separation between teams is more on the level of what they are willing to ignore or forgive, rather than whether they're all 'clean' or not.

College football and basketball are incredibly dirty, there's no doubt about it.

I don't know that paying players will really end it, though - is the pay based on performance? It would have to be 'standardized' to prevent the rich from getting richer as it were, which would just lead to the same sort of tipping and payouts. I don't know that there's really a solution at all.