Any NASCAR fans on here?

shinerbock · #1 07-03-2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

Jr. has always had top notch equipment and he still has not won a championship, and with only 17 wins he's way overrated. Now that I think about it, he's winless so far this season. Kyle isn't. With the way Jr. is talked about, you would think he's won more championships and races than Richard Petty. Part of the problem has come from poor management. I don't think anyone racing in NASCAR today would be able to perform well in mediocre equipment, plus I don't think Kyle would be dumb enough to sign with a mediocre team. I think that was a bad decision to let KB go. That kid can drive, he just has some growing up to do.

A) he's never had top equipment

B) I think he's (Jr) only behind Stewart, Johnson and Gordon for wins since 2000

C) Hasn't he finished in the top 5 in points a couple times...its not like he hasn't been in contention.

D) Kyle has never done anything outside of Hendrick. Also, recent history has shown there is a big drop off from Hendrick===everyone else.

E) Even people who show open disdain for Jr. (DW) say that on a better team he'd have won a championship, likely multiple championships.

The idea that Kyle is better than Dale Jr. is simply laughable. Kyle is a hothead with serious driving deficiencies who will struggle when given less than top equipment. I think you're way, way off on this.

PrettyBoy · #2 07-03-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

A) he's never had top equipment

B) I think he's (Jr) only behind Stewart, Johnson and Gordon for wins since 2000

C) Hasn't he finished in the top 5 in points a couple times...its not like he hasn't been in contention.

D) Kyle has never done anything outside of Hendrick. Also, recent history has shown there is a big drop off from Hendrick===everyone else.

E) Even people who show open disdain for Jr. (DW) say that on a better team he'd have won a championship, likely multiple championships.

The idea that Kyle is better than Dale Jr. is simply laughable. Kyle is a hothead with serious driving deficiencies who will struggle when given less than top equipment. I think you're way, way off on this.

I didn't say he was better than Jr. right now. Jr. has more experience therefore he's able to make better track decisions. Yes, Jr. is behind Gordon, Johnson, and Stewart for wins, but way behind without a championship. He finished in the top 5 in 2003 and 2004. I know it's early in KB's career but he made the chase last year and I really think he'll do it this year too. He's the youngest driver in NASCAR history to win a race. Fireball Roberts held that record until KB beat it at age 20. He's also the 1st driver to win in the COT. He's not better than Jr. as a driver right now, it's still early in his career. Give it a couple more years and watch him shine. I watched JG's 1st race at Atlanta in 1992. He qualified 21st and finished 31st after he crashed. He completed I think 164 laps and I knew at that point he was my driver. I had Big E fans saying that I was nuts and that Gordon sucks because he kept crashing. I told them he would be better than Big E and I got lauhged at. Well, 4 championships later he's the most dominant driver today and he will finish 3rd in the most wins only to Richard Petty with 200 and David Pearson with 105. KB's driving style reminds me of a young Gordon. The only difference, is Gordon had Big E as a mentor, KB has Gordon, so Gordon matured a little faster. KB is always running up front. His problem is he likes to race the 1st 10 laps like they're the last 10 laps. If he can get pass that, he'll be awsome.

Jr. never had top equipment? Dude what planet are you on? He's only been with DEI. DEI is like the Taj Mahal of NASCAR. The floors in that place are so clean you can eat off of them. DEI is top equipment shiner. Seriously. Jr.'s problem is he has an idiot as a team owner. I agree, like I said in an earlier discussion of ours, Jr. would have won a couple of championships if Big E was still runnin' the show. It's too hard to compare the two, because it's so early in KB's career. I just think it's a mistake to let young talent like that go.

Jr. is way overrated. He's really more like a Rex White. Rex White wasn't that popular even though he won the Grand National championship in 1960 (it wasn't Winston Cup back then) if Jr. had a different last name, there's no way in hell he would be as popular as he is. There are/were so many drivers that blow him away, yet they don't get the publicity they deserve. I can name a few. David Pearson is one. He won the championship in 1966, 68, and 69 with 105 wins. DW won in 81' 82' and 85'. He has 84 wins, 3 championships with 59 poles, something Jr. will never accomplish. Cale Yarborough won 3 championships, and he's the only driver who won it 3 consecutive years. Those are just a few drivers, and I know of many more. Hell, Mark Martin has accomplished more than Jr. Jr. gets more recognition than him too, and he hasn't accomplished any records except for his lap record at Charlotte and his win at Texas making him the only Rookie to win at Texas. I'm not saying he sucks or anyhting, but he doens't deserve no where near as much attention as he's getting. Hell, Gordon gets beer cans thrown at him from Jr. fans when he wins races. What kind of respect is that to a 4 time champion. I've been watching/reading about this sport since I was 6 and I know a good Rookie driver when I see one, and I knew since KB's rookie year in 05' that's he's going to be really good.

He started racing Craftsman trucks when he was 16 and he was running up front too, until NASCAR changed the age rules. He almost won the Busch championship. Jr. won it twice but winning a Busch championship really doesn't mean a driver will be successful in cup cars. Jeff Green won a Busch championship too and he sucks, so it doesn't mean much because cup cars are totally different. But anyway I'm not knocking your point, I just think KB is going to be the one. If I'm wrong you can put it in my face, but until next year, we'll just have to wait and see how well Jr. does. If he performs like he's performing now, then there's no excuses. You're right, KB wouldn't perform well in bad equipment, but neither would Jr. or any other driver so that just doesn't make any sense. Actually I don't even think Jr. does that well in good equipment, but again that's Teresa causing that problem. Again, Kyle won't be stupid enough to sign on to a piss poor team. If he signs on to Joe Gibbs which has been the rumor, he'll be awesome. He'll have Tony as mentor and he's the best driver in the sport. Better than Jeff.

I'm not sure about driver drop offs from team owners. You probably know more about that than I do.

Well anyway, I'll check back in a few days. Have a nice holiday.

AGDee · #3 07-03-2007, 08:35 PM

I know nothing about racing but I have to say my piece here. On Father's Day weekend, I camped at Michigan International Speedway with my son's Boy Scout troop. We were being paid to clean the stands after the races and got to keep the cans and bottles (10 cent returnables in Michigan) to turn in for cash. We were earning money toward my son's Scout account to pay for his future camping trips and other stuff that comes up.

It was 90 degrees + that weekend, and humid. I never saw so much concrete with so little shade in my life. When we went to clean the stands, it was totally disgusting. I never saw so many Budweiser cans in my life. And, people used them as ashtrays. People also left peanut shells all over the ground. Try sweeping up peanut shells soaked in spilled beer. Ick. It stunk so bad. So, my plea to you race fans is this: Drink the whole beer and leave us the can without the peanut shells. Throw away your other trash. Oh yeah, and it's almost impossible to sweep up beer soaked earplugs too, so take your earplugs with you, please!

Thanks

BuckeyeTriDelta · #4 07-03-2007, 09:06 PM

DEI is in no way near the Taj Mahal of equipment. Period. David Pearson, DW and,Yarborough are not racers of this day and age. Comparing them to Jr. is comparing apples to oranges. When great drivers of NASCAR are talked about these drivers are always mentioned and when appropriate their names are mentioned. They had their time for attention and news coverage. I'm sure Mark Martin got his attention in his day. It is a new era in NASCAR. The reason those drivers don't get attention much anymore is well..they aren't racing anymore. Martin is running this season but in limited races. Respect to a guy just because he is a 4 time champion? Just because someone has won 4 championships does not mean that people automatically respect him or like him. Plus tons of people have awesome rookie seasons then have horrid seasons to follow. A good rookie season means just that; a good rookie season. Jr. is getting the attention because for the past 4 years he has been voted by the fans as the most popular driver in NASCAR. You give the people what they want and the majority seem to want Jr. I'm sure if Gordon or Tony were voted most popular the coverage might change, slightly.

Shinerbock..you have anything else to add?

shinerbock · #5 07-03-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeTriDelta

DEI is in no way near the Taj Mahal of equipment. Period. David Pearson, DW and,Yarborough are not racers of this day and age. Comparing them to Jr. is comparing apples to oranges. When great drivers of NASCAR are talked about these drivers are always mentioned and when appropriate their names are mentioned. They had their time for attention and news coverage. I'm sure Mark Martin got his attention in his day. It is a new era in NASCAR. The reason those drivers don't get attention much anymore is well..they aren't racing anymore. Martin is running this season but in limited races. Respect to a guy just because he is a 4 time champion? Just because someone has won 4 championships does not mean that people automatically respect him or like him. Plus tons of people have awesome rookie seasons then have horrid seasons to follow. A good rookie season means just that; a good rookie season. Jr. is getting the attention because for the past 4 years he has been voted by the fans as the most popular driver in NASCAR. You give the people what they want and the majority seem to want Jr. I'm sure if Gordon or Tony were voted most popular the coverage might change, slightly.

Shinerbock..you have anything else to add?

Not really, you said most of what I wanted to. I would add that comparing Kyle to drivers-past is unrealistic, considering we're far more advanced in the modern area and are putting drivers in top equipment at very young ages.

DEI was really only dialed in at restrictor plate tracks, and Hendrick eventually caught them. They were good at Atlanta, RIR and Bristol, but it varied widely.

I'd hate to see Kyle go to Gibbs, but I know its possible. I'm not sure Tony would eagerly take the kid on, but he'd be a good teacher. I think Kyle will probably be an adequate driver, but I think Jr. is about to peak, and I don't think Kyle will match that. Also, there is a fairly strong chance that Kyle will end up killing himself because he's stupidly reckless, so I'm not sure this battle will come to fruition.

PrettyBoy · #6 07-05-2007, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeTriDelta

DEI is in no way near the Taj Mahal of equipment. Period. David Pearson, DW and,Yarborough are not racers of this day and age. Comparing them to Jr. is comparing apples to oranges. When great drivers of NASCAR are talked about these drivers are always mentioned and when appropriate their names are mentioned. They had their time for attention and news coverage. I'm sure Mark Martin got his attention in his day. It is a new era in NASCAR. The reason those drivers don't get attention much anymore is well..they aren't racing anymore. Martin is running this season but in limited races. Respect to a guy just because he is a 4 time champion? Just because someone has won 4 championships does not mean that people automatically respect him or like him. Plus tons of people have awesome rookie seasons then have horrid seasons to follow. A good rookie season means just that; a good rookie season. Jr. is getting the attention because for the past 4 years he has been voted by the fans as the most popular driver in NASCAR. You give the people what they want and the majority seem to want Jr. I'm sure if Gordon or Tony were voted most popular the coverage might change, slightly.

Shinerbock..you have anything else to add?

I never said DEI was the Taj Majal of equipment. I said it was the Taj Majal of NASCAR, meaning the size, money, cleanliness ect. The Taj Majal of NASCAR are not my words. Those words came from DW during a tour/interview with Big E and I have to agree. As far as what the cars are set up for in concerned, yes I gotta agree with shiner on that, but DEI is top equipment so Jr. has been in top equipment throughout his career. We'll have to agree to disagree on that topic.

Past NASCAR drivers are still mentioned in trivia questions during races, so they don't have to not be racing to be mentioned. The only reason Jr. is voted the most popular driver is because he has Earnhardt as his last name. I think Jr. is a good driver, I just don't think he ever earned being voted most popular driver. What makes him so popular? I know it's not his driving. So what is it? Bill Elliot was named most popular driver more than any driver in NASCAR history. He earned it though. Why? Because the most wins he ever got in one season was 11(a lot) and he won the Winston Cup in 88', and still holds the speed record at Daytona and Dega. (because of the restrictor plates) basically he was just damn good. When Jr. fans throw beer cans at Gordon, not only are they disrespecting him, his team and his fans, they're disrespecting the sport. Period. I'd love to see them get arrested. Comparing Jr. to past drivers is not like comparing apples and oranges. New and old drivers get compared all the time. Yes, the sport is totally different now and so is the skill level, because the cars are so different, but they still get compared, I read and watch it all the time, in fact, Gordon was voted 3rd greatest driver of all time. He was the only current driver compared with past drivers like Buddy Baker, David Pearson (Silver Fox) Richard Petty, Bobby Isaac ect. ect.. I've been watching Martin race since his rookie year in 82 and I watched him when he signed on to Roush in 88 and he's never gotten the attention he deserves. Martin is a much better more focused driver than Jr. I know Jr. has more on his plate than Martin and that may be one reason why.

Stewart and Gordon have never been voted most popular driver, but yet between the two of them they have 6 championships and well over 100 wins. Something Jr. will never see. He may get one or two... if that.

LOL at shiner's comment on Kyle killing himself. Well, I would hope that wouldn't happen to him or anyone else. Kyle is wild, I'm not saying that he isn't. He just needs to mature thats all. The kid almost won the Daytona 500 this year, geez give the kid a break. That is so awesome. That kid is going to be something else you watch. Right now Gordon is still my driver and has been since 93' actually 92' and he will be until he retires. When he does, Kyle is taking his place. Laugh now. I got laughed at when I said Gordon was going to be good, and after 94' he ran rings around Big E.
I remember a comment Rick said to DW back in 92/93. He asked him what do you think about my new rookie? DW laughed and said, "good luck", because Gordon kept crashing. Look at him now.

I don't doubt Kyle.

shinerbock · #7 07-05-2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I never said DEI was the Taj Majal of equipment. I said it was the Taj Majal of NASCAR, meaning the size, money, cleanliness ect. The Taj Majal of NASCAR are not my words. Those words came from DW during a tour/interview with Big E and I have to agree. As far as what the cars are set up for in concerned, yes I gotta agree with shiner on that, but DEI is top equipment so Jr. has been in top equipment throughout his career. We'll have to agree to disagree on that topic.

Past NASCAR drivers are still mentioned in trivia questions during races, so they don't have to not be racing to be mentioned. The only reason Jr. is voted the most popular driver is because he has Earnhardt as his last name. I think Jr. is a good driver, I just don't think he ever earned being voted most popular driver. What makes him so popular? I know it's not his driving. So what is it? Bill Elliot was named most popular driver more than any driver in NASCAR history. He earned it though. Why? Because the most wins he ever got in one season was 11(a lot) and he won the Winston Cup in 88', and still holds the speed record at Daytona and Dega. (because of the restrictor plates) basically he was just damn good. When Jr. fans throw beer cans at Gordon, not only are they disrespecting him, his team and his fans, they're disrespecting the sport. Period. I'd love to see them get arrested. Comparing Jr. to past drivers is not like comparing apples and oranges. New and old drivers get compared all the time. Yes, the sport is totally different now and so is the skill level, because the cars are so different, but they still get compared, I read and watch it all the time, in fact, Gordon was voted 3rd greatest driver of all time. He was the only current driver compared with past drivers like Buddy Baker, David Pearson (Silver Fox) Richard Petty, Bobby Isaac ect. ect.. I've been watching Martin race since his rookie year in 82 and I watched him when he signed on to Roush in 88 and he's never gotten the attention he deserves. Martin is a much better more focused driver than Jr. I know Jr. has more on his plate than Martin and that may be one reason why.

Stewart and Gordon have never been voted most popular driver, but yet between the two of them they have 6 championships and well over 100 wins. Something Jr. will never see. He may get one or two... if that.

LOL at shiner's comment on Kyle killing himself. Well, I would hope that wouldn't happen to him or anyone else. Kyle is wild, I'm not saying that he isn't. He just needs to mature thats all. The kid almost won the Daytona 500 this year, geez give the kid a break. That is so awesome. That kid is going to be something else you watch. Right now Gordon is still my driver and has been since 93' actually 92' and he will be until he retires. When he does, Kyle is taking his place. Laugh now. I got laughed at when I said Gordon was going to be good, and after 94' he ran rings around Big E.
I remember a comment Rick said to DW back in 92/93. He asked him what do you think about my new rookie? DW laughed and said, "good luck", because Gordon kept crashing. Look at him now.

I don't doubt Kyle.

I just don't agree on Kyle. He's an immature driver who has yet to show his talent on a lesser team. I suppose this dispute can't be settled for while, though.

I think Junior has easily earned his "most popular driver" title, unless you think it should only go to the best driver. He's come pretty close to winning the championship and was been consistently great/dominating on the sport's most popular tracks (Dega and Daytona, to a lesser degree ATL and Bristol). He's one of if not the most humble driver on the circuit, and he's shown himself to be continually devoted to his fans. He's a good driver who if he retired now, would have had a far above average career. With his transition to Hendrick, he could really solidify his place among the top drivers in NASCAR history. I see no reason why he hasn't earned his most popular title.

BuckeyeTriDelta · #8 07-05-2007, 10:38 PM

What makes him the most popular would probably be yes his last name, but he's pretty good looking to. That helps.

Yes those who do throw beer cans do get arrested and banned from tracks. Jr. himself has said that he does not like it when fans do that, but he can't control what people do in the stands. While I agree with your comment on drivers being compared, my words were directed to why aren't those drivers getting recognition/coverage/attention you were talking about. I have to disagree with you on Kyle, I just don't see it.

BTW, did you think Newman was going to be awesome after his rookie season? Honest question...

UGAalum94 · #9 07-05-2007, 10:39 PM

I just want to thank you for having this thread. When my husband asks me what I'm reading, I'm usually crippled with embarrassment having to admit to GreekChat. But when I can throw out your NASCAR related theories to him for consideration, I think I'm partially redeemed.

PrettyBoy · #10 07-07-2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I just don't agree on Kyle. He's an immature driver who has yet to show his talent on a lesser team. I suppose this dispute can't be settled for while, though.

I think Junior has easily earned his "most popular driver" title, unless you think it should only go to the best driver. He's come pretty close to winning the championship and was been consistently great/dominating on the sport's most popular tracks (Dega and Daytona, to a lesser degree ATL and Bristol). He's one of if not the most humble driver on the circuit, and he's shown himself to be continually devoted to his fans. He's a good driver who if he retired now, would have had a far above average career. With his transition to Hendrick, he could really solidify his place among the top drivers in NASCAR history. I see no reason why he hasn't earned his most popular title.

I agree with his humble personality. If I could hang out with any driver, it would be him. I hate his fans though. They're assholes. (not you guys on GC) just the fans that throw cans at Gordon.

Thrillhouse · #11 07-04-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

I know nothing about racing but I have to say my piece here. On Father's Day weekend, I camped at Michigan International Speedway with my son's Boy Scout troop. We were being paid to clean the stands after the races and got to keep the cans and bottles (10 cent returnables in Michigan) to turn in for cash. We were earning money toward my son's Scout account to pay for his future camping trips and other stuff that comes up.

It was 90 degrees + that weekend, and humid. I never saw so much concrete with so little shade in my life. When we went to clean the stands, it was totally disgusting. I never saw so many Budweiser cans in my life. And, people used them as ashtrays. People also left peanut shells all over the ground. Try sweeping up peanut shells soaked in spilled beer. Ick. It stunk so bad. So, my plea to you race fans is this: Drink the whole beer and leave us the can without the peanut shells. Throw away your other trash. Oh yeah, and it's almost impossible to sweep up beer soaked earplugs too, so take your earplugs with you, please!

Thanks

Yeah, I talked to someone who had a troop there a couple of years ago. He said they had done it for a few years and make a boatload of money doing so.

You have to take the good with the bad!