Smaller Groups-how can you make PNMs feel chosen?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Did the sorority vote to invite these rushees back? Did these rushees have some good conversations with these women (in the sorority's mind, anyway)?

If so - then they WERE chosen!! Maybe the girls didn't choose the sorority, but the sorority chose them. Don't get hung up on the fact that they're "stuck" at your chapter. You don't know what they're feeling inside. Maybe they're a triple legacy to XYZ and got cut from XYZ, but it's not that they dislike you, it's that they have to tell their 98 year old granny they aren't going to be an XYZ.

However, if the chapter is being forced by whoever have you in authority to invite back members that everyone hated and that the chapter DID cut - then that's another matters entirely. I don't care what your advisor says, I don't care what national says, I don't care what Panhellenic or the rho chi or your rush chair says. If no one in the chapter could find anything redeeming in a woman, DO NOT HAVE HER BACK. It creates feelings like Carnation's above scenario. If this woman is such a hidden jewel, she can come to a COB event or two and maybe she'll make a better impression.

I think some women get so distressed about voting in general (especially if they're in a smaller chapter) that they let people off too easily. You're not voting on whether to ever talk to this woman again or to shun her from the campus or something. You're voting on whether you're going to spend a large part of your college years with this person and possibly live with her. If you don't want to do that, then don't vote to the contrary.

Just because your chapter is smaller - don't settle for crap. Your crap may be someone else's shining star, and vice versa. Invite and cultivate the women at rush that you like for themselves, not just because they're cute or what have you.

Really, if you HQ says you have to invite as many women as you are allowed, I wouldn't go against that.

[UGAalum94]

If it's okay with Carnation, maybe we should open the question up this way:

At every size and strength of chapter, what do you do to attract your top girls, your rush crushes, your legacies, other people's legacies that you want to poach from their legacy chapters, and any other PNM that you have designated as a VIP?

What the the techniques that you use within your chapter to make sure that these girls are going to have an especially great experience at your chapter?

Sure we all know that you rush every girl as well as you can, but you don't take chances with the GLO's international president's daughter or your founder's great-great- granddaughter do you?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Really, if you HQ says you have to invite as many women as you are allowed, I wouldn't go against that.

HQs do this constantly - I've read about it multiple times on GC - and I don't know why they all keep thinking "throw a ton of poo at the wall and see what sticks" is an effective recruitment strategy.

As a wise woman said, it's easier to be forgiveness than ask for permission. Cut them if they're cuttable and keep them off. PERIOD.

I mean, if your HQ is OK with you rushing and bidding women with zero social skills who no one in the chapter clicks with, whose grades are in the toilet and who, most importantly, want NOTHING to do with your chapter....yeah, good luck with that. Just because Pi Pi chapter is over quota and total every year since 1950 and Mu Mu is just as consistently under both...this means Mu Mu should give bids to anything that moves and Pi Pi can cut women if they don't have a 4.0 and 80 zillion Lily dresses? Sorry, but no. Plus, what if you give invites/bids to all these women and they keep saying no? That gets arond and makes your reputation even worse.

This isn't a "we want quality, not quantity" argument. Quantity can breed quality, but it can also increase the chances of pledging a woman or women who's a complete disaster. Sorority membership does not automatically transform someone - if it did, we wouldn't have selective rush to begin with.

[UGAalum94]

33Girl,

ETA: I just saw your response to me. The real deal is that they aren't often rude. The rude girls do usually get cut. The others are as sweet as can be, and in some ways that's part of the problem. The group can't tell who really likes them and wants to join, and who is just so socially good that she's not going to let herself be a bad guest. She's not going to tell you that she's crying because she thinks your group sucks.

And about open bidding, that's not even a factor at some places. They know that the groups they had as favorites don't open bid. But they may still be preffing at a house they think they want, and they to continue with rush, they have to go to up to a certain number of who they were invited to. Or they may be trying to give you a chance, but you still have to make them want it. How do you do it?

My original message started here: Sometimes, I'm sure that you are right. That a smaller group might be better off to go with only girls they love. I can especially see why it might be true in a smaller system with established groups of varying sizes where COR is a common practice. If you were allowed to choose well, you could have the chapter you wanted and the reputation you wanted. I honestly wish the NPC way of doing things allowed more of this. It certainly seems possible with IFC groups. They aren't all the same size. They have different reputations, and yet a lot of times the groups with 60 guys are considered as good as some of the 100+ guy chapters, especially if it's a 100+ guy chapter with a reputation for taking too many guys.

But other times, in NPCs, getting smaller pretty much means you are going to go under. And the honest truth of it is that at large recruitments, especially competitive recruitments, we're not really talking about giving bids to just anyone, especially people as bad as what you have described.

We're talking about groups figuring out how to find the women they really like who are open to joining a smaller group and make them know that they really are wanted by the chapter and that joining the chapter will be fun.

Because the problems isn't with the PNMs really. It's with how getting invites back is an unpleasant wake up call for girls who expected to join other chapters. They are more than aware of where they ranked your chapter and where other girls ranked your chapter, even if they liked you, and when they get the invite lists back and find out that they've gotten cut from their "favorites," they feel like losers. They aren't losers. They'd be great members. But after that experience, they're not feeling the NPC love.

And then, you've got to pref them at your group.

How do you do it when not doing it isn't an option?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Because the problems isn't with the PNMs really. It's with how getting invites back is an unpleasant wake up call for girls who expected to join other chapters. They are more than aware of where they ranked your chapter and where other girls ranked your chapter, even if they liked you, and when they get the invite lists back and find out that they've gotten cut from their "favorites," they feel like losers.

My correspondent says that this hits the nail on the head. Her group is also aware of where these girls ranked them and that these girls want to be at other sororities with their friends yet they keep having to go back unwillingly to her group and she feels like they dread the idea of opening an envelope on Bid Day with their name on it. At which point they'd drop it and leave and her group has 10 girls show up instead of the huge numbers all around them.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by carnation

My correspondent says that this hits the nail on the head. Her group is also aware of where these girls ranked them and that these girls want to be at other sororities with their friends yet they keep having to go back unwillingly to her group and she feels like they dread the idea of opening an envelope on Bid Day with their name on it. At which point they'd drop it and leave and her group has 10 girls show up instead of the huge numbers all around them.

I understand that this can be a difficult thing to deal with because the sisters love their org so much.

Something that we have been dealing with a lot in my SAI chapter are girls that want to get initiated, but then don't want to show up to meetings etc. I have come to the realization that I would rather have 5 super dedicated women who are excited to be sister than 35 women who don't really care, just want the letters.

Of course, we don't have a quota. It's probably harder for NPC groups to aim for that when they have a national leader hounding them to get numbers up, not worrying about the dedication of the new women.

[FSUZeta]

a friends daughter(who was a legacy to 2 groups) was rushing last year at a competitive school. the school has the pnms list their top "x amount" of choices and then rank the other sororities in the order that they would like to receive an inviation if the "x" number of #1's don't all invite them back. she did pretty well, but was dropped by some of her top choices and had to accept invitations to sororities she would have preferred to drop. it became quite frustrating to her and other pnms that they were not allowed to decline an invitation to a sorority they did not want to join. she is a polite, well mannered young woman and i am sure that she was as gracious to the sorority members as they were to her.

i understand the concept behind "maximizing your choices" and i understand that panhellenic is trying to level the playing field and hopes to help smaller chapters increase their membership. i just don't know if forcing pnms to return to chapters that they have no desire to join, is the way to do it. does it actually increase a smaller chapters chances of increasing their total chapter size, or does it perhaps emphasize to pnms who did want to be there, the campus stereotype they may have to deal with for the next 4 years?

[FSUZeta]

to answer the original questions: i always put our best rushers on our rush crushes. we make sure they meet the campus movers and shakers, the chapter officers, as many sisters as possible without overwhelming the pnm. the previous days rusher will make sure to go over and say hello and remark on how glad they are to see the pnm back today.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

a friends daughter(who was a legacy to 2 groups) was rushing last year at a competitive school. the school has the pnms list their top "x amount" of choices and then rank the other sororities in the order that they would like to receive an inviation if the "x" number of #1's don't all invite them back. she did pretty well, but was dropped by some of her top choices and had to accept invitations to sororities she would have preferred to drop. it became quite frustrating to her and other pnms that they were not allowed to decline an invitation to a sorority they did not want to join. she is a polite, well mannered young woman and i am sure that she was as gracious to the sorority members as they were to her.

i understand the concept behind "maximizing your choices" and i understand that panhellenic is trying to level the playing field and hopes to help smaller chapters increase their membership. i just don't know if forcing pnms to return to chapters that they have no desire to join, is the way to do it. does it actually increase a smaller chapters chances of increasing their total chapter size, or does it perhaps emphasize to pnms who did want to be there, the campus stereotype they may have to deal with for the next 4 years?

How far are we forcing these women to attend? Do they have to go to pref? If you feel like the presence of these women is jeopardizing the integrity and beauty of your pref ceremony - which for some groups has ritual overtones - then I don't think you should have to have uninterested rushees there. The Panhellenic needs to change it. The last thing I as a rushee would want to remember my pref by is some other rushee standing beside me looking like someone shot her puppy.

A lot of times it seems the things Panhellenic does to "help" the smaller chapters hurts them instead - this thread shows that. There's only so much you can do to help a group - when it comes down to it, ABC still has 50 girls and all the other sororities have 175. Some girls don't care about that, and the fact that ABC can't get the chance to focus on those girls because others are being "forced" to come is unfair to everyone involved.

[Faith4Keep]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The last thing I as a rushee would want to remember my pref by is some other rushee standing beside me looking like someone shot her puppy.

I totally agree. There are always some PNMs who are unaffected by tent talk, but almost all the ceremonies I went to for pref were full of girls who seemed genuinely happy and excited to be at that ceremony. I would feel really stupid if I was happy to be at a ceremony that others were upset to be at.

I think it may be key to seek out the members who would best fit your membership early on in the game. Of course, every chapter wants the HS Cheerleading captain, the valedictorian, or the rediculously pretty girls. But we all need to be realistic. Find the girls that you would be proud to get to know and, like FSUZeta said, get your best rushers on them. They may not be the prettiest or have the best resume, but they would be great for your chapter and you can't afford to lose them early on when the PNM needs to narrow down from 7 to 5 chapters (or whatever!). Most of us can figure out early on in the game who's going to go where, so don't waste your time with girls who are obviously not a fit for your chapter.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

a friends daughter(who was a legacy to 2 groups) was rushing last year at a competitive school. the school has the pnms list their top "x amount" of choices and then rank the other sororities in the order that they would like to receive an inviation if the "x" number of #1's don't all invite them back. she did pretty well, but was dropped by some of her top choices and had to accept invitations to sororities she would have preferred to drop. it became quite frustrating to her and other pnms that they were not allowed to decline an invitation to a sorority they did not want to join. she is a polite, well mannered young woman and i am sure that she was as gracious to the sorority members as they were to her.

i understand the concept behind "maximizing your choices" and i understand that panhellenic is trying to level the playing field and hopes to help smaller chapters increase their membership. i just don't know if forcing pnms to return to chapters that they have no desire to join, is the way to do it. does it actually increase a smaller chapters chances of increasing their total chapter size, or does it perhaps emphasize to pnms who did want to be there, the campus stereotype they may have to deal with for the next 4 years?

The only problem is in telling the difference between girls who know they would rather drop out of rush and be independent than join these groups and the girls who never even really looked at them because they were still getting asked back elsewhere.

How will the second group even know that they should give these groups a look until their favorites release them?
If we give girls the power to cut groups even when they don't have have full parties in the first couple of rounds, I think they'll be a lot of girls dropped from rush after third. Girls who may not have realized what the real situation was until it was too late.

We could allow girls to cut groups even without full parties only at the preference level. If they aren't going to list the group on the bid card, it doesn't really do much good for anyone to make them attend pref. I think pref can make a difference when a girl is even partially open to the group, but if she really has a "I'd rather join Al-Qaeda" (remember that quota?) attitude, it may be pointless and even detrimental for her to be there.

But since I don't think having to go to a party that you don't want to go to is really that big a hardship in life, I really don't have that much sympathy for the "why do I have to go back there?" PNMs, and I guess it shows. I understand the point about how it might not do any good to make them go from the chapter's point of view; but the only way to figure out that "yes it does some good" is to find out that there are even worse outcomes for the struggling chapters.

ETA: once it catches on that "cool girls don't even pref XYZ," isn't it likely that returns will go down even more?

[adpiucf]

A large percentage of PNM's are going to have their minds made up about you before they walk through your door at recruitment b/c of the rumor mill. There is no overnight solution, but I think a big part of the solution involves building chapter morale and strengthening your campus image during the school year. It's also about knowing how to rush someone, to make a personal connection with a PNM and getting her to click with you and what your chapter is all about.

Once the PNMs come into your event, they already have a perception in their heads, and you have less than 30 minutes to turn that perception around. There's a lot to be said for the notion that recruitment is "365 days a year." You have to have an internal and external PR plan for your chapter, keep members motivated and excited and spread that spirit to the rest of the Greek community.