Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I totally agree with this part, but I think what you may not realize is that every chapter we'd be talking about needing to worry about image is likely already doing those three things.

Officially, first round a lot of places is all about the benefits of going Greek generally. Within the official panhellenic circle, everyone wants to see each group take quota. But that doesn't have any effect about what people hear at parties or what fraternity boys or sorority girls say when telling their little biological sisters which groups they should try to join which then gets repeated to all her friends. We'd love for them to simply say "join the group that makes you happy" and leave it at that, but they don't always.

And you could see Tippiechicks post about chapter consultants and advice from nations for more about that.

As far as the talking as a chapter and resolving as a chapter to make certain efforts, I think it varies in it's implementation. I think the officers always put out the official word, but that at the big chapters, you may sometime run into people who disagree with the official word and kind of have their own recruitment plans.

I don't mean this in a condescending way at all (although I've been schooled in PM about disclaimers like that): but It's honestly sweet to me how idealistic you are. I'd really prefer to live in the world of your Greek Life.

That's unfortunate that people decide to just go their own route with reference to recruitment. But if they go their own route, they have no authority as to who can and cannot be involved in recruitment, ie deciding who can and cannot be talking to women.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

That's unfortunate that people decide to just go their own route with reference to recruitment. But if they go their own route, they have no authority as to who can and cannot be involved in recruitment, ie deciding who can and cannot be talking to women.

It really is unfortunate. As alphagamugaalum said, I'd love to be on a campus like yours where it seems that every chapter can really go its own way.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

It really is unfortunate. As alphagamugaalum said, I'd love to be on a campus like yours where it seems that every chapter can really go its own way.

It's disheartening that so many campuses are not like the one where I initiated. However, I do have to point out that there were definitely a fair share of negative stereotypes that many (if not all) of the groups had to overcome, and it was difficult for all of them.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

It's disheartening that so many campuses are not like the one where I initiated. However, I do have to point out that there were definitely a fair share of negative stereotypes that many (if not all) of the groups had to overcome, and it was difficult for all of them.

DramaDawg and I are from the same campus (although separated by ten+ years and not from the same chapter) so it may not really be as many campuses as you fear.

But it doesn't change the situation for the groups where it is true and it doesn't offer much hope that overall situation changes much over time (although the particular struggling groups may vary a little from decade to decade.)

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

DramaDawg and I are from the same campus (although separated by ten+ years and not from the same chapter) so it may not really be as many campuses as you fear.

But it doesn't change the situation for the groups where it is true and it doesn't offer much hope that overall situation changes much over time (although the particular struggling groups may vary a little from decade to decade.)

Well, it's not altogether hopeless, either. I have seen chapters on many campuses completely change and overcome stereotypes to become the best on a certain campus in a few short years. Again, I stand by my statement that sacrificing sisterhood for more members should not be an option. But I digress. . .

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

Well, it's not altogether hopeless, either. I have seen chapters on many campuses completely change and overcome stereotypes to become the best on a certain campus in a few short years. Again, I stand by my statement that sacrificing sisterhood for more members should not be an option. But I digress. . .

When the chapters overcame the stereotype, did another chapter get stuck with it or did it go away completely?

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

When the chapters overcame the stereotype, did another chapter get stuck with it or did it go away completely?

Actually, one went away completely, because it was a ridiculous stereotype regarding sexual orientation. Several of the other stereotypes also disappeared, but of course, people are always going to talk trash, especially when people are petty and jealous of certain accomplishments. Sisters just need to remain dedicated to their chapters and hold on to their ideals.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Haha, not quite. He's an oddball alright. We have the really really white guy that is majoring in Spanish (I don't know why) and who speaks like everything he says is a question. (in spanish)



I agree. I think we are on the same page for the most part. I also don't believe for one second that ANYONE should be asked to stay away from recruitment. However, I do believe that there are ways for some members to be more proactive than to actively rush.

Que?

No, I agree completely.

[Tippiechick]

Shut the hell up already... Enough...

[UGAalum94]

You know if you timed that just right. . .

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

Shut the hell up already... Enough...

hahahahha

[PM_Mama00]

All I've seen in this thread is...

SEC: Blah blah fat girls ruin our reputation and formal recruitment

Normal campuses: Our sisterhood is more important than getting superficial new members.

DONE. Lol see no one has to read the whole thread anymore.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I agree. I think we are on the same page for the most part. I also don't believe for one second that ANYONE should be asked to stay away from recruitment. However, I do believe that there are ways for some members to be more proactive than to actively rush.

I agree too, and there are tasteful ways to request that they do something besides stand in the front row of rushers talking to PNM's every party. I am not telling anyone "hey, you're a fatty, hide," but rush isn't always pleasant for everyone.

We had a sister who wanted to be in a skit but could not dance to save her life. We eventually changed it so she would sorta "introduce" the skit, and someone else took her place as a dancer. It's the same thing, just find another place for the women who do not excel at rushing for whatever reason.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

I guess what I fail to understand is why this is acceptable and why there is no one willing to try to change it. Of course, it will take years, maybe even decades of work, individuals skilled in marketing, and individuals with some strong values to lead the change. Maybe that's why it won't happen. It's just too much work for the few that are willing to do it.

It isn't though. Maybe as an alum I can help with that. I hope so. It's just extremely depressing how accepted this is. It is totally against what the organizations were founded for...and, like I said, despite my cynical distaste for Pledged, has made ME, already a Greek, believe it.

And no, it's not going to be one chapter that changes it. One chapter cannot take on a whole monster by itself. Especially if they are already tired and stressed out from constant recruiting battles. Nationals/internationals, for instance, sometimes help perpetuate this attitude. We saw it in the DePauw case. I've seen it myself...a chapter seemingly offered no help at ALL relevant to the campus it was on..."suggestions" based totally on a campus where Greek life is the norm. I haven't experienced it, but I don't doubt that my chapter might run into similar problems with officials if it found itself below on numbers. Maybe everyone just got too big for their britches, and that's a shame. It seems that those of us who became Greek on smaller campuses really got the sisterhood/brotherhood experience. It doesn't mean we don't have our issues or run into petty/superficial attitudes with both members and PNMs at times, but even based on just this thread there is a HUGE gap. I have little doubt that if the sisters at my chapter were presented with the decision to close and recolonize or totally exclude sisters for recruitment, they'd rather recolonize. And I really do think the others on campus would be the same way.

And I do agree with the point that once you have a reputation, it's near impossible to change it. Especially if it's a negative one. Think back to high school. Weren't the nerds nothing BUT nerds, even if they quit band and lost the braces? Teenagers have a tendency to be self centered. They aren't all completely STUPID and superficial as some keep saying, but in general...self centered...YES. It translates into their perceptions of others. BUT I think the talk with the council...both male AND female councils would be helpful. It isn't going to turn around the reputation, but it might SLOW the progression of nasty remarks. It would take some effort. For instance, having a Greek advisor on your side who would call a meeting of individuals in each organization who DO value sisterhood/brotherhood and are therefore likely to be more sympathetic to the plight of the struggling chapters. It is part of the fight to change the way things are. It's not going to happen overnight. That's just not possible. But if people put the EFFORT into it, it could be changed in a few years. Seems worth it to me...being Greek and an Alpha Gam is important to me...therefore making sure the reputation of neither is tarnished by this stuff is as well. Because to me, it's VERY tarnished.

[pialpha92]

I have read this entire thread - I think my original post is around page 8...

I still maintain that this happening is not exclusive to struggling chapters. It is not exclusive to competitive campuses. It is not exclusive to the SEC. It happens far to often than I would probably care to know.

I think it is sad that it happens at all. You can come up with whatever justification you want for it happening, but that does not make it any more ok. It does not have to happen.

Most of the discussion seems to keep focusing on the poor struggling chapter at a competitive school that is trying to compete. What about when the not-struggling chapter does it too? They don't have the 'fat girls' reputation. They obviously like those member enough to have offered them a bid in the first place and allowed them to stay an active member. If the member is good enough to be in the chapter the entire rest of the year and no one has a problem with that - why suddenly are the too unsightly when it comes to recruitment?

This is different than they aren't a good rusher, can't sing or dance to be in the skit, etc. There are ways to assign those people to other areas without insulting them. Per the OP - this is where we are talking about a purely superficial rejection of someone based on physical appearance (whatever that may be).

That is something that I would never consider to be appropriate, either in the years that my chapter struggled or in the years that it didn't. Not everyone feels that way, but coming up with what you consider a 'good reason' for it does not make it any more right.