Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[33girl]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

To say that ALL of the NPC groups are only concerned with Recruitment is a gross generalization that is not necessarily true. That is all that I am saying. I sincerely doubt that all of the national executive councils are foaming at the mouth for more members. I doubt very much that anyone on here knows every one of the NPC's members, and if you do, then more power to you. Again, it's statements like these that make our organizations look so superficial to outsiders.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Have some of the groups proposed getting rid of the quota/total system?

I agree that there are some NPC MEMBERS who could care less about numbers being huge - after all, everyone in an NPC sorority is an NPC member.

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Omigosh - I know of one poor woman who went through SIX recruitments, never got a bid, but then became President of a colony when she was a senior. We saw her standing outside of a house after Pref one time, and were happy to see that she was going to get a bid, but I guess they opted not to do so, as they were still under quota (holy run-on sentence, Batman!).

ETA: She wasn't the least bit overweight, either!

You'd think that after several unsuccesful recruitments you'd get the hint and stop trying.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

You'd think that after several unsuccesful recruitments you'd get the hint and stop trying.

I wonder if she ended up AIing.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

Thank you.

If a chapter doesn't pledge quota it means they've gone to the bottom of their bid list, which usually doesn't include all "quality" women.

Or they cut all the non-quality women before they made their bid list. I know chapters that, under the new release figures, were supposed to cut no one for the first few rounds. Did they cut? Yes. Was it just grade risks? No. Did they necessarily make quota, no but COB/CR wasn't a big deal to them.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Or they cut all the non-quality women before they made their bid list. I know chapters that, under the new release figures, were supposed to cut no one for the first few rounds. Did they cut? Yes. Was it just grade risks? No. Did they necessarily make quota, no but COB/CR wasn't a big deal to them.

Yep, I do think this happens, and I think opinions can legitimately vary about whether this is a good thing, especially if you might not make quota without the cuts.

BUT the harsh reality is that if the chapter's return rates were different, they could make the cuts and still make quota unless something is weirdly wrong in terms of NPC policies at that school.

I think that NPC recruitment almost guarantees that it be a superficial process because of how contact during the decision making process is supposed to be limited to the parties. It has nothing to do with how friendships are formed in the real world. COB/COR is probably a more sincere form of recruitment if it's something more than just offering bids to girls who dropped out of formal.

Certain parts of the country have turned NPC recruitment in to a "who were you in your hometown" process, and in some ways that might be better in terms of being a little deeper level of knowledge, but it excludes anyone who doesn't have connections from some groups.

KathyKD, NPC and NPHC recruitments and attitudes to numbers are just very different. And compared to what's involved in joining an NPHC, I think you're going to have a really hard time finding even 10 NPC chapters that could compare. That doesn't mean that I think every NPC hides members during recruitment or anything horrible like that, but if you look into it, I think you'll see what I mean.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Quality over quantity is just an excuse for poor recruitment. Your chapter can have both if everyone works for it.

Amen.

ETA: I'll qualify that by agreeing that I agree with the statement in reference to large schools.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Quality over quantity is just an excuse for poor recruitment. Your chapter can have both if everyone works for it.

Definitely signature-worthy.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Quality over quantity is just an excuse for poor recruitment. Your chapter can have both if everyone works for it.

This is probably very true for fraternities because they can give out bids differently, and there's no stigma to year round rushing or having two pledge classes a year. You can even have summer rush parties and give bids before guys get to school.

NPC recruitment with quota and chapter total as well as incredibly structured formal rush during which you can't give bids until the end changes the game more than you might think. It's a little harder for the current group of members to make it all up in one recruitment or even a few years of working hard at recruitment if you're a group that girls don't go into recruitment knowing they'd join.

[CrimsonBlues]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

This is probably very true for fraternities because they can give out bids differently, and there's no stigma to year round rushing or having two pledge classes a year. You can even have summer rush parties and give bids before guys get to school.

NPC recruitment with quota and chapter total as well as incredibly structured formal rush during which you can't give bids until the end changes the game more than you might think. It's a little harder for the current group of members to make it all up in one recruitment or even a few years of working hard at recruitment if you're a group that girls don't go into recruitment knowing they'd join.

This was very true on my campus. My chapter was also "small and struggling" (we usually had around 100 members on a campus where the other sororities had 120-150 members). We are not in any financial danger whatsoever, and, though our national really wants us to make quota, we're not being pressured as intensely as this group apparently is. Anyway, this past year, though we did release several women who did not meet our standards for whatever reason (we refuse to be a "warm bodies" chapter), we were fairly good about following the release figures. We ended up with enough women attending our pref parties to fill more than three pledge classes; however, when it came time to sign bid cards, so many women chose not to list our chapter that we barely matched to half of quota. We are not actually collectively "fat" or "ugly" or "dorky," but this is the reputation that our chapter has acquired, and nothing we did to combat it in my four years as an active seemed to much of an effect. This is not me wearing blinders about the reality of our chapter - just about every member of my chapter could easily blend in with the membership of the majority of the groups on my campus. The reality seems to be that, apparently, every semi-competitive or competitive campus has to have a "bad sorority." As recently as five years ago, our chapter was just another "mid-to-lower tier" group that had no problem coming close to or making quota every year. Unfortunately, my campus lost a couple sororities in rapid succession, and we were apparently next in line to be "that house"...and so it went.

As long as the other sororities and the fraternities on our campus remain devoted to telling pnms that we are the "fatties," that we are closing this year, that we're the "sorority that takes the girls nobody else wants," etc, it will be extremely difficult to impossible for us to make quota. It really is a shame for us to lose out on so many quality women, and it is just as much of a shame that these quality women miss out on Greek life entirely because they cannot overlook the stereotypes they've heard - and, honestly, who can blame them for wanting to avoid that kind of stigma for three-four years? I guess what I'm getting at is that sometimes, it really isn't laziness or lame excuses when a chapter is smaller. We have had some success with informal recruitment, but most women on my campus don't live under a rock.

It's too bad that greeks treat one another this way, because it weakens us as a whole. Truly, if the sorority that does the most negative talking about us gets its wish and sees our chapter closed...they're next in line.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

You got me there. I guess all I can say is that I'm glad I don't have to deal with NPC rush.

I think that most NPCers have, at best, complicated feelings about the way we do things.

At the top chapters, it actually limits how many excellent girls they can take despite those girls wanting them first.

It's kind of bizarre.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Obviously we have a serious difference of opinion here. A small chapter has to do everything they can to stay open. Once things have gotten this bad, priorities change. It's a question of preserving individual freedoms (the fat girls feelings) or protecting society at large (her chapter).
Either way, I agree that it's totally unacceptable to send her completely away from recruitment. It's not like they can't use her.

You got me there. I guess all I can say is that I'm glad I don't have to deal with NPC rush.

I have been a member of a smaller, "struggling" chapter. However, my chapter was overall one of the best looking chapters on campus when this was happening, and the fraternities loved to mix with us. We were small because we attracted some women who were not very committed to sorority life, who dropped out throughout the year. And you know what? The smaller numbers hurt us every year during rush...it was a self-fulfilling prophecy...every year got worse. Even though we had so many beautiful women in our chapter, we got smaller pledge classes because PNMs made snap judgements based on our size. I think size of the chapter has way more to do with it than the size of the women in the chapter.

I'm glad I didn't go to a SEC school after reading all about how "it's all about looks." It's not like that on every campus, even competitive ones, and I'm glad. I think I'd feel stressed out and uncomfortable if I knew my sisters were THAT obsessed with me looking my best all the time. I mean, would I have to sleep in my makeup just in case I had to get up in the middle of the night? I bet I wouldn't have had the wild and super-casual twice-a-year camping trips with my sisters if I was in a SEC chapter.

I was a rush counselor two times - once as a sophomore when I was pre-med and knew I'd be too busy with classes and studying to spend those late nights in membership selection, and later as a senior when I was on Panhellenic exec. - and it was great. I was SO excited to do it my senior year...it was much more enjoyable than dealing with the decorating, the conversation, etc. It is also a lot of fun to see what all of the other chapters do during recruitment, and to hear the reactions of the PNMs throughout the process. I encourage all NPC women to apply if they're considering it...it's a good opportunity to see recruitment from a more objective standpoint.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I am on the Panhellenic Council (Pi Chi) and we have Rho Gammas who are the actual recruitment guides and I LOVE it. I actually fell into it by default, but it's an amazing experience and I'm so glad to not be going through recruitment this year...seeing it from the other side makes me soooo happy that I can see the bigger picture and not focus on certain aspects of the process.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

We were small because we attracted some women who were not very committed to sorority life, who dropped out throughout the year. And you know what? The smaller numbers hurt us every year during rush...it was a self-fulfilling prophecy...every year got worse. Even though we had so many beautiful women in our chapter, we got smaller pledge classes because PNMs made snap judgements based on our size. I think size of the chapter has way more to do with it than the size of the women in the chapter.

Oh wow, that first sentence really has something to it. Year after year, I've noticed that the stronger groups tend to know how to pick who'll stay in and who'll drop or transfer. Those groups end up with big senior classes.

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by carnation

Oh wow, that first sentence really has something to it. Year after year, I've noticed that the stronger groups tend to know how to pick who'll stay in and who'll drop or transfer. Those groups end up with big senior classes.

talk about a veiled insult

[carnation]

Nope, not in the least. You look at the composites of various groups at a school and you realize that the stronger groups have managed to keep far more seniors.