Phi Retro Recruitment

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

AlphaFrog,

Actually, I wouldn't care if my legacies even went through recruitment, so there's not likely to be any pressure put on the girl from me.

But honestly at 150+ chapters like where I went to school, I don't buy in much to the idea of the chapter deciding a legacy is authentically "not a good fit for a the chapter" during rush because it's going to be based on a couple of very superficial meetings. There are all types of folks in each organization, really. What not being a good fit would likely mean on my old campus (but not so much at my chapter) in most cases would mean would be A. not cute enough/plump B. not popular enough in high school. C unknown by girls presently in the chapter. Are those the standards, particularly A and B, that you would want used in releasing legacies because that's what folks are probably using in most cases? (We also might add "not from the right type of family" when right type refers mainly to wealth and prominent social position, but that's only for a couple of chapters.)

I suspect that at my old campus legacies don't get much deference because many of the chapters have a couple of new members classes going through rush in any one year. If you know you can't give bids to them all, they you have to evaluate they just like non-legacies. But I don't think the standards actually used are particularly deep and meaningful assessments. Great girls get cut every year probably most often because they don't have connections in the chapter already.

And in the interest of honesty, your hypothetical that someone I raised or was raised with me would "act like an ass" at all of the parties and be rude is just insulting, don't you think? Sure some legacy might act like that but in that case, don't you think the girl is going to drop the group at the earliest opportunity?

I think less harm in done to alumnae relations when chapters communicate with alums about the decisions that they've made. Cutting someone's daughter is going to do harm to the relationship with that person, and not just to "petty" folks like me.

Ok, so you don't care if your "legacy" rushes, but if she does, she better not be cut from your chapter?? THAT makes sense.

Yes, Rush can be superficial, but it's still not an excuse that they should keep your "legacy" if she's less of a fit than another girl. And, if the chapter's standards of "fit" includes looks or activities, that's their prerogative.

Oh, and children are products of their enviroment, but that's not always a deciding factor. The best parents in the world that do everything right can end up raising a worthless excuse for a human being. So it's not really insulting your hypothetical parenting skills to imply that someone you raise could turn out the wrong way. Nature, in many cases, has been proven to be stronger than nurture.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Ok, so you don't care if your "legacy" rushes, but if she does, she better not be cut from your chapter?? THAT makes sense.

Yes, Rush can be superficial, but it's still not an excuse that they should keep your "legacy" if she's less of a fit than another girl. And, if the chapter's standards of "fit" includes looks or activities, that's their prerogative.

Oh, and children are products of their enviroment, but that's not always a deciding factor. The best parents in the world that do everything right can end up raising a worthless excuse for a human being. So it's not really insulting your hypothetical parenting skills to imply that someone you raise could turn out the wrong way. Nature, in many cases, has been proven to be stronger than nurture.

My point is that you care much more deeply about the person related to you than you do the chapter already, which is why if I had a legacy I would want her to do what she wanted to do. It'd be fun if she joined my group, but not at the expense of her doing what she wanted to do.

On the other hand, my connection to a chapter is by its very nature weaker. And in the present is somewhat based on what the current members do. Rejecting my relative isn't going to strengthen those bonds.

If a person regards a chapter of her GLO on an even level with her regard for members of her own family, I think there maybe something wrong in that family to begin with. I would think a normal person would think of the relative ahead of the chapter, and it would be helpful in terms of alum relations for the chapter to keep in mind.

I know it's not possible for a chapter to keep every legacy. Even if it were, there are legitimate reasons why legacies could/should be cut.

I'm pointing out that a cutting legacies may weaken the lifelong relationships that members have with chapters and maybe even organizations. And I was wondering what Gamma Phi Beta knew about making the phone calls that caused them to not make them.

(It's hard for me to relate to the idea that you think a PNM is going to spontaneously but deliberately act like a jerk during recruitment rather than conduct herself in the manner she's been raised. It doesn't really matter if it's nature or nurture, but the time she goes off to college, she's probably going to have some foundation in knowing how to behave, good or bad. If you think that her choices are acting like a jerk vs. joining a group she doesn't want to join, I don't really think I look at membership the way you do.)

[AlphaFrog]

I guess having 2 kids, I'm going to pull the "love each one differently" card.

I love my daughter...and I hope that she chooses to rush, and if that college has ASA, it would be great if she went ASA. But, if my sisters there decided she wouldn't be a fit for that chapter, and cut her, it wouldn't change how I love ASA. Daughter and ASA are seperate loves...and if they someday become the same love, then great. But I know, it's not the chapter's obligation to keep me a happy and involved alum, that's my responsiblity.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I guess having 2 kids, I'm going to pull the "love each one differently" card.

I love my daughter...and I hope that she chooses to rush, and if that college has ASA, it would be great if she went ASA. But, if my sisters there decided she wouldn't be a fit for that chapter, and cut her, it wouldn't change how I love ASA. Daughter and ASA are seperate loves...and if they someday become the same love, then great. But I know, it's not the chapter's obligation to keep me a happy and involved alum, that's my responsiblity.

I think the responsibility is mutual. The chapter doesn't have to completely defer to you any more than they'd defer to a single active member, and even then, I'd say alumna opinions should count less. But the chapter isn't free to expect to do something that hurts you and also expect you to just suck it up and keep working for them.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

My point is that you care much more deeply about the person related to you than you do the chapter already, which is why if I had a legacy I would want her to do what she wanted to do. It'd be fun if she joined my group, but not at the expense of her doing what she wanted to do.

Not everyone feels that same way. I got more than a couple of phone calls (and I was simply the Alumnae Chapter President, I had nothing to do with recruitment at either of our local chapters) from women who were upset that a person they wrote a rec for (I think at least one was not even a legacy) didn't get into Gamma Phi.

And I know plenty of stories of alumnae who cut off contact.

It's not the business of the chapter to tell the family of a PNM that she was cut. What if the PNM is GLAD she was cut?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB

It's not the business of the chapter to tell the family of a PNM that she was cut.

I understand and agree with this generally, but most groups do have legacy policies of one kind or another which indicates that certain relatives of members receive a special level of consideration of some kind.

It's about the relationship or the organization with the member rather than the PNM, in my opinion. The organizations usually promote legacy introduction forms, don't they? They expect members to provide the chapter with information, so why wouldn't it also seem reasonable to expect that the information would flow both ways?

Again, it seems to me that notification isn't about the PNM really; it's all about the person who is already a member who has taken the time to make you aware of a legacy going through recruitment.

I can see that Gamma Phi Beta's policy would have several benefits to the chapter in the short term, and as I said, the phone call may not do any good in terms of long term relationships anyway. I think it's a perfectly justifiable policy to have, not that my opinion about it would matter anyway. I'm just trying to explain why I don't think the "it's no one else's business" is completely ironclad.

I don't understand what the "what if the member wants to get cut" question is about. Sooner or later in the process, the PNM is going to get to decide if she is interested in the group, even if it's just on the bid card. Can you explain what you mean more elaborately because I know I'm missing something here.

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I understand and agree with this generally, but most groups do have legacy policies of one kind or another which indicates that certain relatives of members receive a special level of consideration of some kind.

It's about the relationship or the organization with the member rather than the PNM, in my opinion. The organizations usually promote legacy introduction forms, don't they? They expect members to provide the chapter with information, so why wouldn't it also seem reasonable to expect that the information would flow both ways?

Again, it seems to me that notification isn't about the PNM really; it's all about the person who is already a member who has taken the time to make you aware of a legacy going through recruitment.

I can see that Gamma Phi Beta's policy would have several benefits to the chapter in the short term, and as I said, the phone call may not do any good in terms of long term relationships anyway. I think it's a perfectly justifiable policy to have, not that my opinion about it would matter anyway. I'm just trying to explain why I don't think the "it's no one else's business" is completely ironclad.

I don't understand what the "what if the member wants to get cut" question is about. Sooner or later in the process, the PNM is going to get to decide if she is interested in the group, even if it's just on the bid card. Can you explain what you mean more elaborately because I know I'm missing something here.

You're missing more than something. She may not WANT the person to know. There are such things as PNM's who continue through rush at houses they don't really like simply because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings by dropping the group. In which case, they are relieved when they are cut.

And you are correct. Your opinion about MY sorority's policy is irrelevant. It's a policy they have had for years and it isn't likely to change. I've never even heard it discussed before so it obviously works for us.

[alphagamphi]

AlphaGamUGa I did have a lot of help writing papers in college amoung other things for having dyslexia. It was a challenge for me but I am thankful that I was able to get it.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB

You're missing more than something. She may not WANT the person to know. There are such things as PNM's who continue through rush at houses they don't really like simply because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings by dropping the group. In which case, they are relieved when they are cut.

And you are correct. Your opinion about MY sorority's policy is irrelevant. It's a policy they have had for years and it isn't likely to change. I've never even heard it discussed before so it obviously works for us.

Did you intend this to come of the way it does in terms of tone or am I reading something into it that isn't there?

I didn't appeal for your group's policy to be changed. I was originally asking to be enlightened about the policy itself because it seems different from that of mine and apparently other groups. I was curious if it was a more recent development and wondered what had contributed to the change if it was even, in fact, a change.

Gamma Phi Beta may have learned that the calls do more harm than good to alumnae relationships as well as compromising the PNMs privacy, and it might be a policy that other groups should consider.

Based on your never having heard it discussed before, it doesn't appear that you are able to provide that information.

Again, I don't see why the PNM's potential feelings about being cut change the group's relationship to the member who makes her a legacy.

Why would you all defer more to a young woman who wasn't a member of your group than you would want to communicate with the alumnae members you already had?

I'm not talking about keeping all the legacies here; I'm just talking about not understanding how a PNM's feeling about the group would matter in terms of notification of the member about dropping her. It would seem to me that it would matter less to the member if the PNM weren't really interested in the chapter than the chapter dropped her, but it doesn't really explain why it benefits the GLO not to notify.

We can pretend that all GLOs consider during recruitment is the benefit to the PNM if you want, but I'm not sure that's what happens in most cases.

[ForeverRoses]

I actually like Gamma Phi's policy of the chapter not calling. Honestly, when a chapter does call, do they really tell the "whole truth" or do they just say things to try and make the chapter sound good?
I can't imagine a legacy being cut for not being up to chapter "standards" (whatever those might be) and then the alumna actually being told the whole truth. I know from personal experience that the alumna is usually told something about the legacy being a "better fit somewhere else" or that "they didn't seem interested in us" or "they seemed to really love a different house". Bascially, the reason is sugar-coated. So why even call? Let the PNM call and if the alumna wants more answers, they can contact the chapter directly.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Irishpipes and Lyrelyre,

Would you say something similar in public in real life? Wouldn't it just seem unnecessarily hurtful and insulting?

Even if we did rank the quality of recruitment threads, it wouldn't seem to be that we would directly insult the intelligence of the writer as you all did here.

I never suggested ranking threads. The recruitment stories are fun and interesting, even when there are errors here and there. This one truly was nearly impossible to follow, largely because of the unbelievably poor spelling and grammar. Sure, everybody makes errors and typos, but my 3rd grade son could have written sentences more accurately than those. I am not usually one of the snarky girls, but I truly wonder if this girl is in college.

And yes, to answer your question, if I met this poster in real life, I would kindly suggest that she refrain from writing publicly until her skills are more refined. May I add that the writer insulted her own intelligence by writing so poorly. She cannot complain that she was unfairly criticized, when she was 100% responsible for the quality of the product that she generated. If she wants a more favorable response, she should present herself in a more favorable light. If she is an educated person, she should write like one.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I never suggested ranking threads. The recruitment stories are fun and interesting, even when there are errors here and there. This one truly was nearly impossible to follow, largely because of the unbelievably poor spelling and grammar. Sure, everybody makes errors and typos, but my 3rd grade son could have written sentences more accurately than those. I am not usually one of the snarky girls, but I truly wonder if this girl is in college.

And yes, to answer your question, if I met this poster in real life, I would kindly suggest that she refrain from writing publicly until her skills are more refined. May I add that the writer insulted her own intelligence by writing so poorly. She cannot complain that she was unfairly criticized, when she was 100% responsible for the quality of the product that she generated. If she wants a more favorable response, she should present herself in a more favorable light. If she is an educated person, she should write like one.

The difference, I guess, is that in real life you'd make an effort to do it kindly.

It just seemed unnecessarily harsh and kind of uncalled for, in my opinion, to post a public post to that effect, and kind of out of character for you.

Sorry for the crabbiness on my part.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

The difference, I guess, is that in real life you'd make an effort to do it kindly.

It just seemed unnecessarily harsh and kind of uncalled for, in my opinion, to post a public post to that effect, and kind of out of character for you.

Sorry for the crabbiness on my part.

I was less kind than I could have been because I was half convinced she was a troll. In real life, I would know she wasn't.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I was less kind than I could have been because I was half convinced she was a troll. In real life, I would know she wasn't.

Yeah, I can see why trolls and sockpuppets would get different treatment, but I would have personally erred on the side of her being a real poster.

I guess that's one of the contributing elements in how new posters are treated. People don't accept the sincerity of the posts.

[AlphaFrog]

Are you feeling a void in GC and feel the need to fill it by being the new TOS Police?