Retro Recruitment.....with a different ending

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

I actually disagree with both of those ideas. First, a PNM can always cut a chapter. There is no rule that you have to rank all the chapters you visit or that you have to visit all the houses you're invited to. If a PNM is upset with receiving a bid from a chapter, she should not have ranked the chapter on her bid card.

Second, I've seen chapters at my alma mater take "strays" for the purpose of meeting quota or being at total. I don't think it's good for a chapter to be forced to take members they don't want...whether it's by the policies at the school or advisors/national HQ. I don't think it's good for the chapter OR the new member who will probably subconsciously know she wasn't at the top of the bid list. On the flip side I don't think a PNM should be forced to accept a bid to a chapter she doesn't want either.....I think mutual selection is the only way both the chapters and PNMs are happy (hopefully!).

Actually, some campuses DO make pnms go back to maximum number of parties or all the ones they were invited to if they didn't get invited to the maximum AND the only time that they don't have to actually list them all is on the final bid card. Even then the whole system is stacked towards encouraging them to rank all the chapters : if the campus does quota additions, you aren't eligible unless you maximized your options.

I think the rules must vary a lot from campus to campus.

I'm also used to a campus where the average new member class is in the 50s, so that probably influences my thoughts a lot.

At former campus, I believe a group really would be better off consistently making quota, even with some girls who weren't their absolute top picks, than they would be consistently being perceived as being a struggling chapter.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

At former campus, I believe a group really would be better off consistently making quota, even with some girls who weren't their absolute top picks, than they would be consistently being perceived as being a struggling chapter.

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

I think I would rather a chapter be choosy and not at total than to take just anyone to reach quota/total and be given any one of a number of negative stereotypes because of the image given off by the undesirable new members. Then again, it seems that at big campuses, chapters are considered struggling if they don't make quota no matter how awesome their new member classes are... so I think a lot of groups make concessions and take people who aren't their "top picks" to make quota without being required to take whatever is necessary to fill quota. Yes, there are always girls who fall through the cracks (see my Retro thread) who might have benefitted from the guaranteed system, but that doesn't mean that everyone who rushes is a good fit for a house.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

Come on! I totally posted my Skit Day like 5 min before you posted that ^^^^.


I doubt I'll get the end of it posted before the end of the work day, but NOT TO FEAR! I have internet at home.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

Come on! I totally posted my Skit Day like 5 min before you posted that ^^^^.

Haha, I guess I was in the midst of typing when you posted.

I hate reading knowing that there is going to be sadness at some point, but it's still interesting to hear your story!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

I think I would rather a chapter be choosy and not at total than to take just anyone to reach quota/total and be given any one of a number of negative stereotypes because of the image given off by the undesirable new members. Then again, it seems that at big campuses, chapters are considered struggling if they don't make quota no matter how awesome their new member classes are... so I think a lot of groups make concessions and take people who aren't their "top picks" to make quota without being required to take whatever is necessary to fill quota. Yes, there are always girls who fall through the cracks (see my Retro thread) who might have benefited from the guaranteed system, but that doesn't mean that everyone who rushes is a good fit for a house.

I think it depends on who you are talking about taking and what reason you'd have for being reluctant.

In the few years I participated in rush as a member, I think there were girls who were cut who were of comparable "quality" to the girls in the membership (and I think we had great members). The ones who were released maybe didn't get the benefits of a great rusher to draw them out or might have made a bad superficial first impression. Sometimes it becomes clear because there's a second chance with COB or informal and you actually get the exact same girl you cut in the fall. And as alums, we have all known excellent young women who we can't figure out why anyone would have cut who get released by groups where they would have been perfect members.

Of course we know others with bad reputations, low grades, or other reasons why we sort of expect them to have a bad rush.

It's hard to see why it harms a group to take any girls in the first category, especially if all the groups have to take a few not just the ones with lower numbers.

I don't know what you'd do about the second group, and it's a kind of serious problem because girls with well earned bad reputations can do some serious harm to the group overall.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I don't know what you'd do about the second group, and it's a kind of serious problem because girls with well earned bad reputations can do some serious harm to the group overall.

Yeah, because I'd seriously be concerned about becoming the "stoner house," the "slutty house," the "stupid house," etc. because of a group of PNMs that were forced on me if I went to a school with guaranteed bidding. I'm not sure how fair it would be to force members on a house who were cut for big things like grades or well-earned bad reputations, both of which could ultimately harm the rep of the entire house. Does anyone who goes to a school with this system know if there are provisions for this (that aren't invasive into groups' MS decisions)?

[CZAXOTerp]

I was also wondering about how this guaranteed placement would work w/ regards to chapter's membership standards. AXO is public with our 5 membership criteria: 1) Academic interest; 2) Character;
3) Financial responsibility; 4) Leadership ability; and 5) Personal development.

I know they seem general- but there are plenty PNM's who don't meet all 5.

Also we have publicly listed on our website our statements of position and in that document it also states:
"Fraternity Rights
Alpha Chi Omega is a private women’s organization that is committed to protecting its rights as such. The Fraternity reserves the right to determine its own member recruitment and selection processes and procedures..."

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by CZAXOTerp

I was also wondering about how this guaranteed placement would work w/ regards to chapter's membership standards. AXO is public with our 5 membership criteria: 1) Academic interest; 2) Character;
3) Financial responsibility; 4) Leadership ability; and 5) Personal development.

I know they seem general- but there are plenty PNM's who don't meet all 5.

Also we have publicly listed on our website our statements of position and in that document it also states:
"Fraternity Rights
Alpha Chi Omega is a private women’s organization that is committed to protecting its rights as such. The Fraternity reserves the right to determine its own member recruitment and selection processes and procedures..."

Yeah, or what if you have serious No-Recs from alums? I don't know how you'd really do it.

It just seems to me that in many recruitments, wouldn't you release some girls who did meet all five who just weren't as awesome as the ones you gave bids too? Aren't there some girls who you release you don't really want to release?

Really guaranteed matching and quota additions may be the right way since the group does actually probably want the girls they pref; it's just a question of rank.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by jwright25

The process PeppyGPhiB describes is called Accept/Regret - where chapters issue invitations and PNMs pick the ones they want to attend up to the max allowed for that round. The other option is called Priority Ranking where chapters submit lists privately, PNMs rank privately, and the computer matches them up. The reasons some Panhellenics choose Priority over A/R are many, including:

c - less "public" embarrassment for the PNM. If someone she privately ranked high cuts her, she doesn't have to admit it if she gets a list that is already matched for her and they aren't there. It won't be as public to see all the girls who get 12 invites to the 7 party round when she only has 4. With Priority, the girls who technically got invited to all 12 will only have 7 on their list, which is only 3 more than the girls who got cut by all but 4.

This goes the other way, too, to help the smaller chapters. Girls don't compare invites and see "Oh, XYZ invited everyone back. I had kinda liked XYZ, but they must be desperate for members."

I rushed the last year that UIUC used A/R (SORUSH). After 19-party, I got invited back to 12, and got to pick 10. I was happy, until I got back to the dorm and my three best dorm friends had gotten 19, 19, and 18 invites. So I was a big supporter of the switch to priority (PRUSH).

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

I'm sorry, AlwaysSAI, I wasn't talking about you! I was speculating about what would happen if the type of girls that were discussed in the "Psycho/Stalker PNM" thread rushed at Tufts, where they have to be accepted somewhere. Someone here told a story about a girl who was cut early on but showed up at bid day at the house and cried, hung out outside the house during meetings, etc. That clearly isn't you. But I wonder what in the world they do with "that" girl at Tufts, because you know that there's one of her (or more) at every campus. Nothing can really get the message across to people who lack the skills to hear it.

Even if you have to give them a bid, do you have to initiate them? Can't you eliminate them during the pledge period?