Retro Recruitment.....with a different ending

[UGAalum94]

Continuing the guaranteed placement discussion:

I think mutual selection is probably best: however, it had occurred to me, particularly when I was reading about say Sig Ep's new(ish) membership program, if maybe groups shouldn't approach the process believing that the strengths of their organization could turn anyone into a good member?

I wouldn't want the whole new member class to be randomly matched or anything like that, but really if you got 5 to 10% new members that picked you instead of your picking them (which let's face it: we can describe traditional matching as mutual selection, but the groups hold most of the cards. The PNM may not even get to cut a group if she's not invited back to the max. parties. Sure she can decline her bid in the end, but is that really mutual selection in anything other than a technical sense?)

If you got to choose 90% of your nm class, and got a few strays, couldn't your org. handle it?

(I'll confess that I'm thinking more girls who might be cut for superficial reasons rather than girls who are released because they were morals or risk management problems.)

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

If you got to choose 90% of your nm class, and got a few strays, couldn't your org. handle it?

Probably. I think it happens at places that aren't guaranteed placement. I'm going to be honest. Every sister doesn't love love love every new member from day one.

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Continuing the guaranteed placement discussion:

I think mutual selection is probably best: however, it had occurred to me, particularly when I was reading about say Sig Ep's new(ish) membership program, if maybe groups shouldn't approach the process believing that the strengths of their organization could turn anyone into a good member?

I wouldn't want the whole new member class to be randomly matched or anything like that, but really if you got 5 to 10% new members that picked you instead of your picking them (which let's face it: we can describe traditional matching as mutual selection, but the groups hold most of the cards. The PNM may not even get to cut a group if she's not invited back to the max. parties. Sure she can decline her bid in the end, but is that really mutual selection in anything other than a technical sense?)

If you got to choose 90% of your nm class, and got a few strays, couldn't your org. handle it?

(I'll confess that I'm thinking more girls who might be cut for superficial reasons rather than girls who are released because they were morals or risk management problems.)

I actually disagree with both of those ideas. First, a PNM can always cut a chapter. There is no rule that you have to rank all the chapters you visit or that you have to visit all the houses you're invited to. If a PNM is upset with receiving a bid from a chapter, she should not have ranked the chapter on her bid card.

Second, I've seen chapters at my alma mater take "strays" for the purpose of meeting quota or being at total. I don't think it's good for a chapter to be forced to take members they don't want...whether it's by the policies at the school or advisors/national HQ. I don't think it's good for the chapter OR the new member who will probably subconsciously know she wasn't at the top of the bid list. On the flip side I don't think a PNM should be forced to accept a bid to a chapter she doesn't want either.....I think mutual selection is the only way both the chapters and PNMs are happy (hopefully!).

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

I actually disagree with both of those ideas. First, a PNM can always cut a chapter. There is no rule that you have to rank all the chapters you visit or that you have to visit all the houses you're invited to. If a PNM is upset with receiving a bid from a chapter, she should not have ranked the chapter on her bid card.

Second, I've seen chapters at my alma mater take "strays" for the purpose of meeting quota or being at total. I don't think it's good for a chapter to be forced to take members they don't want...whether it's by the policies at the school or advisors/national HQ. I don't think it's good for the chapter OR the new member who will probably subconsciously know she wasn't at the top of the bid list. On the flip side I don't think a PNM should be forced to accept a bid to a chapter she doesn't want either.....I think mutual selection is the only way both the chapters and PNMs are happy (hopefully!).

Actually, some campuses DO make pnms go back to maximum number of parties or all the ones they were invited to if they didn't get invited to the maximum AND the only time that they don't have to actually list them all is on the final bid card. Even then the whole system is stacked towards encouraging them to rank all the chapters : if the campus does quota additions, you aren't eligible unless you maximized your options.

I think the rules must vary a lot from campus to campus.

I'm also used to a campus where the average new member class is in the 50s, so that probably influences my thoughts a lot.

At former campus, I believe a group really would be better off consistently making quota, even with some girls who weren't their absolute top picks, than they would be consistently being perceived as being a struggling chapter.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

At former campus, I believe a group really would be better off consistently making quota, even with some girls who weren't their absolute top picks, than they would be consistently being perceived as being a struggling chapter.

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

I think I would rather a chapter be choosy and not at total than to take just anyone to reach quota/total and be given any one of a number of negative stereotypes because of the image given off by the undesirable new members. Then again, it seems that at big campuses, chapters are considered struggling if they don't make quota no matter how awesome their new member classes are... so I think a lot of groups make concessions and take people who aren't their "top picks" to make quota without being required to take whatever is necessary to fill quota. Yes, there are always girls who fall through the cracks (see my Retro thread) who might have benefitted from the guaranteed system, but that doesn't mean that everyone who rushes is a good fit for a house.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

Come on! I totally posted my Skit Day like 5 min before you posted that ^^^^.


I doubt I'll get the end of it posted before the end of the work day, but NOT TO FEAR! I have internet at home.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

Come on! I totally posted my Skit Day like 5 min before you posted that ^^^^.

Haha, I guess I was in the midst of typing when you posted.

I hate reading knowing that there is going to be sadness at some point, but it's still interesting to hear your story!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

AlwaysSAI, I think the hijack will continue until you post some more!

I think I would rather a chapter be choosy and not at total than to take just anyone to reach quota/total and be given any one of a number of negative stereotypes because of the image given off by the undesirable new members. Then again, it seems that at big campuses, chapters are considered struggling if they don't make quota no matter how awesome their new member classes are... so I think a lot of groups make concessions and take people who aren't their "top picks" to make quota without being required to take whatever is necessary to fill quota. Yes, there are always girls who fall through the cracks (see my Retro thread) who might have benefited from the guaranteed system, but that doesn't mean that everyone who rushes is a good fit for a house.

I think it depends on who you are talking about taking and what reason you'd have for being reluctant.

In the few years I participated in rush as a member, I think there were girls who were cut who were of comparable "quality" to the girls in the membership (and I think we had great members). The ones who were released maybe didn't get the benefits of a great rusher to draw them out or might have made a bad superficial first impression. Sometimes it becomes clear because there's a second chance with COB or informal and you actually get the exact same girl you cut in the fall. And as alums, we have all known excellent young women who we can't figure out why anyone would have cut who get released by groups where they would have been perfect members.

Of course we know others with bad reputations, low grades, or other reasons why we sort of expect them to have a bad rush.

It's hard to see why it harms a group to take any girls in the first category, especially if all the groups have to take a few not just the ones with lower numbers.

I don't know what you'd do about the second group, and it's a kind of serious problem because girls with well earned bad reputations can do some serious harm to the group overall.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I don't know what you'd do about the second group, and it's a kind of serious problem because girls with well earned bad reputations can do some serious harm to the group overall.

Yeah, because I'd seriously be concerned about becoming the "stoner house," the "slutty house," the "stupid house," etc. because of a group of PNMs that were forced on me if I went to a school with guaranteed bidding. I'm not sure how fair it would be to force members on a house who were cut for big things like grades or well-earned bad reputations, both of which could ultimately harm the rep of the entire house. Does anyone who goes to a school with this system know if there are provisions for this (that aren't invasive into groups' MS decisions)?

[CZAXOTerp]

I was also wondering about how this guaranteed placement would work w/ regards to chapter's membership standards. AXO is public with our 5 membership criteria: 1) Academic interest; 2) Character;
3) Financial responsibility; 4) Leadership ability; and 5) Personal development.

I know they seem general- but there are plenty PNM's who don't meet all 5.

Also we have publicly listed on our website our statements of position and in that document it also states:
"Fraternity Rights
Alpha Chi Omega is a private women’s organization that is committed to protecting its rights as such. The Fraternity reserves the right to determine its own member recruitment and selection processes and procedures..."

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

There is no rule that you have to rank all the chapters you visit or that you have to visit all the houses you're invited to

There are some schools, mine is one, where you have to visit every org that extends you an invitation. If you are not there and no one knows why, you are automatically dropped from recruitment.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by OtterXO

First, a PNM can always cut a chapter. There is no rule that you have to rank all the chapters you visit or that you have to visit all the houses you're invited to.

At every campus I've ever assisted with, PNMs have to attend the maximum number of parties for that round. So, if there are 6 parties that round and they get invited back to exactly 6 houses, they cannot cut a chapter.

There may be some campuses where PNMs can always cut a chapter during formal recruitment, but I'm pretty sure the majority require you to maximize your options.

(sorry for the thread hijack, AlwaysSAI )

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by susan314

At every campus I've ever assisted with, PNMs have to attend the maximum number of parties for that round. So, if there are 6 parties that round and they get invited back to exactly 6 houses, they cannot cut a chapter.

There may be some campuses where PNMs can always cut a chapter during formal recruitment, but I'm pretty sure the majority require you to maximize your options.

(sorry for the thread hijack, AlwaysSAI )

I was always under the impression that you have to rank the amount of houses you visited, but you could always rank a house you didn't visit. i.e. Suzy visits ABC, DEF, GHI and JKL but really didn't like GHI. She could rank ABC, DEF, JKL and MNO (a house who dropped her in a previous round). I'm not saying she would be 'maximizing all her options' to be eligible for quota additions, but if maximizing her options means she's ranking a house she really dislikes, wouldn't it be better to not rank that house? I guess I just hate to think that people feel they have no control during recruitment. But clearly at some schools they don't.

[PeppyGPhiB]

At my school we didn't even rank chapters. We got our list of invites, and if we had to, we cut the ones we didn't want to go back to. Of the ones we were going back to, we didn't rank them. The only ranking was done after preference, when we were filling out our bid sheets.

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

At my school we didn't even rank chapters. We got our list of invites, and if we had to, we cut the ones we didn't want to go back to. Of the ones we were going back to, we didn't rank them. The only ranking was done after preference, when we were filling out our bid sheets.

To me that seems like the best procedure. I don't know why more schools don't do this.