NPHC BGLO's how do you feel about non NPHC BGLO's

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Clarification 501(c)(7) has always been our IRS designations--membership social clubs.

While all of the NPHC orgs now claim service as their cornerstone, most of them were not founded for the express purpose of service. But because of the nature of the groups--selective memberships, even those that were, were still given (c)(7) designations.

So it really had nothing to do with Title IX. We were already protected and no one was seeking to change their designation anyway.

Agreed, Title IX and IRS designations have nothing to do with each other, but it is the Title IX regulation that forces groups to either be Social Fraternities/Sororities or not Social Fraternities/Sororities. Only Social Fraternities and Sororities have the exemption in Section (A)(6)(a). Not professional F/S, not Honor F/S and not Service F/S. If Delta Sigma Theta were to legally claim to be a Service Sorority rather than a Social Sorority, they would be placing themselves in the legal situation of having to admit men to the collegiate chapters inside the United States. The text of Title IX is at http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titleixstat.htm . You may want to work through the text of the "Iron Arrow" case http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...l=464&invol=67

As for 501c3 vs 501c7, Alpha Phi Omega is 501c3, but that largely has to do with the fact that when Alpha Phi Omega applied for that status, it was more strongly tied to the Boy Scouts of America. I've seen other service groups that are 501c7.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by naraht

Agreed, Title IX and IRS designations have nothing to do with each other, but it is the Title IX regulation that forces groups to either be Social Fraternities/Sororities or not Social Fraternities/Sororities. Only Social Fraternities and Sororities have the exemption in Section (A)(6)(a). Not professional F/S, not Honor F/S and not Service F/S. If Delta Sigma Theta were to legally claim to be a Service Sorority rather than a Social Sorority, they would be placing themselves in the legal situation of having to admit men to the collegiate chapters inside the United States. The text of Title IX is at http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/titleixstat.htm . You may want to work through the text of the "Iron Arrow" case http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...l=464&invol=67

As for 501c3 vs 501c7, Alpha Phi Omega is 501c3, but that largely has to do with the fact that when Alpha Phi Omega applied for that status, it was more strongly tied to the Boy Scouts of America. I've seen other service groups that are 501c7.

And my point is Title IX did not force us to declare ourselves as a social sorority. We did that when we were founded. So for us Title IX was moot.
We are first and foremost a sisterhood founded for public service. The sisterhood is what makes us social.

And I don't need to work through the text of anything. As a member for 38 years, I know the inner workings of my sorority--you don't.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

And I don't need to work through the text of anything. As a member for 38 years, I know the inner workings of my sorority--you don't.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

And my point is Title IX did not force us to declare ourselves as a social sorority. We did that when we were founded. So for us Title IX was moot.
We are first and foremost a sisterhood founded for public service. The sisterhood is what makes us social.

And I don't need to work through the text of anything. As a member for 38 years, I know the inner workings of my sorority--you don't.

I think what the question that will eventually be asked is this:

What is the difference (other than Title IX) between Delta declaring themselves to be a service sorority and Alpha Phi Omega actually being a service fraternity? Is it a matter of substance over form? Just curious...

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

I think what the question that will eventually be asked is this:

What is the difference (other than Title IX) between Delta declaring themselves to be a service sorority and Alpha Phi Omega actually being a service fraternity? Is it a matter of substance over form? Just curious...

Why will this question be asked? As I said what Delta is, is a sisterhood. What she does is public service. And we believe that the quality of our service is only as strong as our sisterhood. So it is first priority.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Why will this question be asked? As I said what Delta is, is a sisterhood. What she does is public service. And we believe that the quality of our service is only as strong as our sisterhood. So it is first priority.

(at bolded) So what are the core elements that separates Delta from Alpha Phi Omega if both are about brother/sisterhood and [public] service?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

(at bolded) So what are the core elements that separates Delta from Alpha Phi Omega if both are about brother/sisterhood and [public] service?

I have no idea since I know nothing about APO, except what I have read here,nor do I care to know. But one may be that you started as Boy Scouts and we didn't.

btw, came from a Scouting family--father an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow and troop leader, mother a GS troop leader, me from Brownie all the way through MAriner Scout--camp counselor and troop leader. So I am not knocking Scouting.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I have no idea since I know nothing about APO, except what I have read here,nor do I care to know. But one may be that you started as Boy Scouts and we didn't.

LOL.

The difference that I see is that APO started as a focus on service through which brotherhood can be realized.

We started as a focus on sisterhood through which service and empowered communities can be realized.

Originally Posted by ladygreek

btw, came from a Scouting family--father an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow and troop leader, mother a GS troop leader, me from Brownie all the way through MAriner Scout--camp counselor and troop leader. So I am not knocking Scouting.

I was a Brownie. The worst thing ever. It served as nothing but a reinforcement of gender stereotypes and expectations. Maybe that was just my Brownie leaders who sucked.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I have no idea since I know nothing about APO, except what I have read here,nor do I care to know. But one may be that you started as Boy Scouts and we didn't.

(at Scouting) Good point. I only asked b/c I always figured if the true intent of our orgs was to serve in some capacity, there should be/have been a lot less inter-org disputes about trivial matters that had nothing to do with the reason why our respective orgs exist.

btw, THAT was, is, and has ALWAYS been my platform ever since I joined Greekchat.

btw, came from a Scouting family--father an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow and troop leader, mother a GS troop leader, me from Brownie all the way through MAriner Scout--camp counselor and troop leader. So I am not knocking Scouting.

Good deal!! At least I get spared from the "ManScout" jokes from you *lol* (not that it had ever bothered me, but still....

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I have no idea since I know nothing about APO, except what I have read here,nor do I care to know. But one may be that you started as Boy Scouts and we didn't.

btw, came from a Scouting family--father an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow and troop leader, mother a GS troop leader, me from Brownie all the way through MAriner Scout--camp counselor and troop leader. So I am not knocking Scouting.

Fair enough. And my knowledge of DST is largely limited to books (though relevant books on the NPHC).

However I will say that my wife has commented that the school where she went (Frostburg State) had DST and a certain NPHC sorority older than DST and that DST was the one that was actually willing to talk to her during the organizational fair given that she is caucasian.

I didn't have any of the NPHC GLOs at my College... (Carnegie-Mellon)

Quite a scouting family!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

(at bolded) So what are the core elements that separates Delta from Alpha Phi Omega if both are about brother/sisterhood and [public] service?

A very good question. I think there are certain things that members of both could agree on that are part of their history. For APO, its historical tie to Boy Scouts of America and for DST, its historical tie to the African American Community.

DST has community chapters (I think all of the NPHC do, but I'm not sure) that allow women to join after college. APO's alumni associations can't do that.

I don't know if the changes in membership intake process in the 1990s to limit pledging represents a significant difference or not.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by naraht

(I think all of the NPHC do, but I'm not sure)

Correct.

Originally Posted by naraht

I don't know if the changes in membership intake process in the 1990s to limit pledging represents a significant difference or not.

Why would it?

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Why will this question be asked? As I said what Delta is, is a sisterhood. What she does is public service. And we believe that the quality of our service is only as strong as our sisterhood. So it is first priority.

I tend to explain this as Delta is a service-minded social sorority. OPhiA is a sometimes-social service sorority. The first priority is different. As you have stated, with Delta, the service aspect cannot be accomplished without sisterhood. With OPhiA, the sisterhood cannot be accomplished without service.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

I think what the question that will eventually be asked is this:

What is the difference (other than Title IX) between Delta declaring themselves to be a service sorority and Alpha Phi Omega actually being a service fraternity? Is it a matter of substance over form? Just curious...

I think the primary differences are probably Title IX and mutual exclusivity. All of the rules for mutual exclusivity I've seen have been for social greeks though I think someone said they affect some of the music professional groups (Sigma Alpha Iota?, Delta Omicron? a few others?)

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

And my point is Title IX did not force us to declare ourselves as a social sorority. We did that when we were founded. So for us Title IX was moot.
We are first and foremost a sisterhood founded for public service. The sisterhood is what makes us social.

I don't see where naraht said or implied any different. In fact, it sounds like you're in agreement.

I remember when I had this discussion with GC people before I was an Alpha.