what do i have to give back?

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Sometimes you do develop deep friendships with people who can't continue their memberships. I would think that the essential judgment of their character would still be accurate, but I totally see what you are saying.

As far as your second point, I can see that as a good system, but if anything, NPC groups seem to be moving in the opposite direction; they want very few distinctions between what new members can do and what initiated members do.

Before initiation we (I can't speak for the whole NPHC, but it is a safe assumption) are not New Members we are candidates (or whatever term the org chooses). The only distinctions I see between new and seasoned members is the length of time one is in the org. For example I have only been a member of AKA since 12/3/06 where as SummerChild (I just wanted to use someone for an example) may have joined 10 (or more)years ago. She and I have the same rights with in AKA and responsibilities as Sorors (unless she holds a position that requires more responsiblity in her chapter).

Originally Posted by IncontRHOllable

Exactly. The first time I heard of giving gifts to NP BEFORE becoming a member is on GC.

Me too!

[KSUViolet06]

This is why I'm glad that signing our termination/depledge paperwork means that they will return ALL lettered items (including the things they bought). So pretty much if you want to terminate, you need to return things. They also have the option of giving the items to their big/littles/other sisters. But either way, they know that whatever they have with our letters on it needs to be returned.

I guess we've just been lucky because anyone who has ever terminated or depledged had no desire to wear our letters or have them on anything.

[BlueEyedButrfly]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

This is why I'm glad that signing our termination/depledge paperwork means that they will return ALL lettered items (including the things they bought). So pretty much if you want to terminate, you need to return things. They also have the option of giving the items to their big/littles/other sisters. But either way, they know that whatever they have with our letters on it needs to be returned.

I guess we've just been lucky because anyone who has ever terminated or depledged had no desire to wear our letters or have them on anything.

I'm the President of a local org and we also have this paperwork that all members sign re: giving merchandise with our letters back upon leaving the org. We don't allow the girls to wear letters until after they're initiated so girls de-pledging and not giving letters back isn't an issue. Although, we did have a girl de-pledge (like 4 or 5 weeks into an 8 week pledge period) and ask for her pledge fee back! (we have since created paperwork for that also!)

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by BlueEyedButrfly

I'm the President of a local org and we also have this paperwork that all members sign re: giving merchandise with our letters back upon leaving the org. We don't allow the girls to wear letters until after they're initiated so girls de-pledging and not giving letters back isn't an issue. Although, we did have a girl de-pledge (like 4 or 5 weeks into an 8 week pledge period) and ask for her pledge fee back! (we have since created paperwork for that also!)

I should also mention that our HQ also has paperwork that girls sign when they pledge saying that:

*The letters/sorority name/crest/badge are property of Tri Sigma.
*If you depledge/terminate, all items bearing those things must be retruned.
*If you wish to leave the sorority, you forfeit ALL dues/fees that you've paid.
*Termination is irreversible (if you terminate your membership OR you ARE terminated by HQ, you cannot join again).

Believe it or not, some girls have terminated, CHANGED THEIR MINDS, and asked to rejoin! We were pretty stunned. WTF?! You SIGNED THE PAPERS!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by 1908Revelations

Before initiation we (I can't speak for the whole NPHC, but it is a safe assumption) are not New Members we are candidates (or whatever term the org chooses). The only distinctions I see between new and seasoned members is the length of time one is in the org. For example I have only been a member of AKA since 12/3/06 where as SummerChild (I just wanted to use someone for an example) may have joined 10 (or more)years ago. She and I have the same rights with in AKA and responsibilities as Sorors (unless she holds a position that requires more responsiblity in her chapter).



Me too!

Honestly, if I ran the NPC Greek world, I think I would do things more like the NPHC in a lot of ways. (You all don’t seem to do “re-structuring” of chapters to increase numbers; it’s understood as desirable (and expected) to stay active in the group your whole life on every level, and you don’t have chapters who have policies about rejecting some affiliates, as far as I know, just to name a few of the things that I admire.)

It seems to me that NPC groups are really accelerating the differences with NPHC are the area of new members, but it hasn’t always been that way.

When I was in college, we were “pledges,” not new members; we had to make certain grades to be eligible for initiation (now the whole process can take less than a semester) and we didn't get to go to chapter until we were initiated. There seemed to be more clear markers of who was a full member and who was trying to become a full member although everyone could wear letters and colors as a new member.

I was NEVER hazed and as far as I know about the same number of people stayed in the group at my chapter from pledging to graduation as do today, so it’s hard for me to appreciate what was “wrong” with the old system. But the people who make these decisions have taken things a different direction.

But maybe you could think about this situation in terms of what you would do with a woman who dropped membership or was kicked out after having crossed. Does your group have procedures and policies about how to handle that?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Honestly, if I ran the NPC Greek world, I think I would do things more like the NPHC in a lot of ways. (You all don’t seem to do “re-structuring” of chapters to increase numbers; it’s understood as desirable (and expected) to stay active in the group your whole life on every level, and you don’t have chapters who have policies about rejecting some affiliates, as far as I know, just to name a few of the things that I admire.)

A lot of NPHC chapters don't have housing either. That makes a big difference in the way things are run.

I know what you are saying and I agree to a point, but if put into practice, it would surely kill off more than a few NPC groups. Keep in mind there are only 4 NPHC sororities.

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by tld221

not that active members would disclose this to NMs, but dont "gifts" to NMs tend to come out of NM fees?

Not by us. The only thing that came out of NM fees were programs ran specifically for the NMs, NM pins, manuals, etc.

Originally Posted by 1908Revelations

I guess it is hard for me to understand since we do not get ANYTHING until after we are members.

Neither did we. We got a ton of gifts after initiation from our big, president and NME but that was the first time we ever got anything big. We would get something small (usually a big/lil shot glass, candle or something along those lines) on Big Sis/Lil Sis night, and that never had letters on it. We weren't allowed to buy anything with letters on it until after initiation either, and that was the way that I liked it.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by 33girl

A lot of NPHC chapters don't have housing either. That makes a big difference in the way things are run.

i can kinda see your point... but which aspect of "the way things are run" are you speaking on? re: housing i think of "oh, NPC orgs will want to recruit as many to fill the house." now im sure that's not the primary reason why NPC recruits and rushes on a much larger scale than NPHC (and i hope not, cause while thte bills gotta get paid, that is LAME), so maybe you can elaborate? (without turning into an NPC vs. NPHC thread cause we've got enough of those)

Originally Posted by 33girl

I know what you are saying and I agree to a point, but if put into practice, it would surely kill off more than a few NPC groups. Keep in mind there are only 4 NPHC sororities.

do you mean size-wise or popularity-wise?

also, tell me if this is too big of an assumption, but does telling a PNM that they are a member from bid day forward bring more appeal to a rushee vs. saying "you have no rights to our letters until initiation?" and i know THIS discussion has been had before, but (NPHC aside) i think a clearer boundary would lessen these scenarios.

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by tld221

also, tell me if this is too big of an assumption, but does telling a PNM that they are a member from bid day forward bring more appeal to a rushee vs. saying "you have no rights to our letters until initiation?" and i know THIS discussion has been had before, but (NPHC aside) i think a clearer boundary would lessen these scenarios.

NPC sororities view recruitment as a 24/7/365 approach so part of the appeal of telling PNM's that they are members after bid day is that their friends will see them participating in sorority activities and wearing letters and will see the amount of fun that the new members are having and will want to join as a result of that.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

NPC sororities view recruitment as a 24/7/365 approach so part of the appeal of telling PNM's that they are members after bid day is that their friends will see them participating in sorority activities and wearing letters and will see the amount of fun that the new members are having and will want to join as a result of that.

recruitment for ALL greek orgs are 24/7, whether it is programs/events held or merely eating lunch with your sisters in the caf. and i can understand people seeing their friends with letters and saying "oh thats cool, maybe i should join." but we all know you dont need to wear letters to represent your org. especially if you JUST joined.

i compare it to being an athlete who gets a medal BEFORE they finish competing. who knows what they will place, if at all. you get the perks of saying "i'm a gold/silver/bronze medalist in _________" before you actually did it. i just feel like having the rights to letters that early on gives less of an "i earned these letters" mentality. unless such doesnt exist within NPC - is that right?

[susan314]

Originally Posted by tld221

recruitment for ALL greek orgs are 24/7, whether it is programs/events held or merely eating lunch with your sisters in the caf. and i can understand people seeing their friends with letters and saying "oh thats cool, maybe i should join." but we all know you dont need to wear letters to represent your org. especially if you JUST joined.

i compare it to being an athlete who gets a medal BEFORE they finish competing. who knows what they will place, if at all. you get the perks of saying "i'm a gold/silver/bronze medalist in _________" before you actually did it. i just feel like having the rights to letters that early on gives less of an "i earned these letters" mentality. unless such doesnt exist within NPC - is that right?

When I initiated into my NPC group in 1992, we were not permitted to wear letters during our pledge period. We could wear the words spelled out (i.e. - Alpha Gam or Alpha Gamma Delta), but not the Greek letters.

Things changed at some point around the time I was graduating. NPC groups (or at least the decision makers) took the stance that not allowing new members to wear the Greek letters was a form of hazing. This was also around the same time where the term "new member" vs. "pledge" was starting to be implemented. Therefore, in my own chapter and in other groups on our campus, new members were permitted to wear the Greek letters.

At the time, I wasn't terribly fond of the change. (After all, its human nature to resist change!) However, now that I reflect on it with a few more years perspective...the reason I respected my organization and wanted to uphold the standards of membership as a pledge wasn't to earn the opportunity to wear the letters. It was because I respected my sisters, our history (both on an individual chapter level and on the International level), our Purpose. Not being permitted to wear the Greek letters really didn't have much bearing on my actions one way or the other.

The meaning and symbolism of the Greek letters is explained to us at Initiation, and that's the important part. Anyone can walk into a Greek store and buy a lettered item, or obtain it by other purposes. (As evidenced by the fact that there was an old man who was frequently spotted picking through dumpsters at my campus, and he always wore a Sigma Delta Tau hat. Certainly the Sigma Delta Tau pledges at our campus had more of a right to wear their letters than he did. )

I personally found it more meaningful to learn all of the secret meanings of the symbols and letters at initiation, than finally being able to wear a lettered sweatshirt. (Again, this is after 15 years perspective since initiating - as I mentioned, I griped along with everyone else when the changes started happening. )

[33girl]

Originally Posted by tld221

ido you mean size-wise or popularity-wise?

also, tell me if this is too big of an assumption, but does telling a PNM that they are a member from bid day forward bring more appeal to a rushee vs. saying "you have no rights to our letters until initiation?" and i know THIS discussion has been had before, but (NPHC aside) i think a clearer boundary would lessen these scenarios.

I've had more caffeine now, so maybe I'll make more sense. (not a guarantee)

NPHC aspirants research the groups and choose to pursue membership in the one they feel the most connection with. There are 4 NPHC groups. If NPC went about acquiring new members in the same way, can you imagine researching all 26 groups in the same manner? It seems like it would turn into a contest among the NPCs as to who had the most name recognition, and that's who would survive. I know not all the NPHCs are the same size, but I also have gotten the impression that the average NPHC rushee has at least HEARD of all the groups.

As to your second question - I think people don't value as much what is given too easily. I'm not talking about letter sweatshirts, I'm talking about membership in general.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I've had more caffeine now, so maybe I'll make more sense. (not a guarantee)

NPHC aspirants research the groups and choose to pursue membership in the one they feel the most connection with. There are 4 NPHC groups. If NPC went about acquiring new members in the same way, can you imagine researching all 26 groups in the same manner? It seems like it would turn into a contest among the NPCs as to who had the most name recognition, and that's who would survive. I know not all the NPHCs are the same size, but I also have gotten the impression that the average NPHC rushee has at least HEARD of all the groups.

As to your second question - I think people don't value as much what is given too easily. I'm not talking about letter sweatshirts, I'm talking about membership in general.

girl that caffeine is the truth, cause that makes total sense - the big orgs will get bigger, the smaller orgs will get smaller. and trust, NPHC has its share of 'name recognition' as well. thx!

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by 33girl

A lot of NPHC chapters don't have housing either. That makes a big difference in the way things are run.

My undergrad chapter had housing for a considerable period of our history on campus. We ran things regarding membership/recruitment the same when we didn't have the house as when we did. What exactly would be different, and why?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

My undergrad chapter had housing for a considerable period of our history on campus. We ran things regarding membership/recruitment the same when we didn't have the house as when we did. What exactly would be different, and why?

How big was your house, and how many (average) were in your chapter? More to the point - if this isn't divulging too much - how many women did you have wanting to join?

Unfortunately, sometimes NPC & NIC rush becomes about filling the house because the campus culture demands you have a house that holds 70 or however many people.