how to handle a thief?

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Do you really believe that ODD exists? What separates a simply bad person from an ODD person?

I think it's a huge mistake for society to approach behavior this way.

After working in child and adolescent psych for 13 years, I saw a lot of ODD. It definitely exists. Children are not simply "bad". ODD kids respond to a consistent environment and therapy and, sometimes, medication.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by AGDee

After working in child and adolescent psych for 13 years, I saw a lot of ODD. It definitely exists. Children are not simply "bad". ODD kids respond to a consistent environment and therapy and, sometimes, medication.

Your premise is all wrong here.

Per your words, there are two choices when these kinds of symptoms emerge- either the child is "bad" or he has ODD.

How do you define "bad"? Even you are putting the term in quotes which suggests to me you have no idea how to quantify it.

The truth is you cannot define "bad" because it is not a choice at all- but merely a false alternative you wish to present in the most disparaging manner possible to support the concept of ODD.

And how is ODD treated? With therapy and medication. Therapy and medication that provide a financial benefit to the prescribing therapist. Your personal financial gain is thus established, but where is the evidence that this is even a treatable condition?

A man of adult age is living at home with his mother, cannot hold a job, is stealing from his own family (you are working on conjecture here- so I will too, trust me this young man is stealing from his family)- and to me that says it all.

Maybe there is some oblique, difficult to define mental issue here- but how does that help anyone deal with the realities of the situation? How many people have the luxury of money and time to figure that out?

I find it amazing that after thousands of years of human evolution and success as the dominant species on this planet that we are suddenly faced with an army of psychologists who can identify all these mysterious illnesses plaguing humanity that can only be treated with therapy and drugs.

When I was in college, people got degrees in psychology because they were too stupid and/or lazy to major in something else. The truly gifted with endeavors of the human psyche became psychiatrists- not psychologists.

It is easy to say your kid just need more nurturing- especially if you can pay someone to give that guidance or get it in bottled form. But I would love to see enduring evidence that such approaches provide long-term meaningful results.

Addiction to drugs like Ritalin seem a far more serious trouble for society at large than kids who had to grow up and realize life is not perfect like the rest of us.

[Rudey]

Everyone is writing long paragraphs. I'll just give you one sentence: Beat him.

-Rudey

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Your premise is all wrong here.

Per your words, there are two choices when these kinds of symptoms emerge- either the child is "bad" or he has ODD.

How do you define "bad"? Even you are putting the term in quotes which suggests to me you have no idea how to quantify it.

The truth is you cannot define "bad" because it is not a choice at all- but merely a false alternative you wish to present in the most disparaging manner possible to support the concept of ODD.

And how is ODD treated? With therapy and medication. Therapy and medication that provide a financial benefit to the prescribing therapist. Your personal financial gain is thus established, but where is the evidence that this is even a treatable condition?

A man of adult age is living at home with his mother, cannot hold a job, is stealing from his own family (you are working on conjecture here- so I will too, trust me this young man is stealing from his family)- and to me that says it all.

Maybe there is some oblique, difficult to define mental issue here- but how does that help anyone deal with the realities of the situation? How many people have the luxury of money and time to figure that out?

I find it amazing that after thousands of years of human evolution and success as the dominant species on this planet that we are suddenly faced with an army of psychologists who can identify all these mysterious illnesses plaguing humanity that can only be treated with therapy and drugs.

When I was in college, people got degrees in psychology because they were too stupid and/or lazy to major in something else. The truly gifted with endeavors of the human psyche became psychiatrists- not psychologists.

It is easy to say your kid just need more nurturing- especially if you can pay someone to give that guidance or get it in bottled form. But I would love to see enduring evidence that such approaches provide long-term meaningful results.

Addiction to drugs like Ritalin seem a far more serious trouble for society at large than kids who had to grow up and realize life is not perfect like the rest of us.

I was replying to alphagamuga who asked how one knows that ODD exists and whether someone is just a "bad person", not the OP, who is talking about someone is almost an adult. ODD is a childhood disorder, not an adult disorder. I don't believe that babies are born bad. I don't think people are bad. I think people sometimes behave badly, but I don't think that makes them bad people. I suppose some people do and they can believe that if they wish. It doesn't fit with my belief system. That will be an area where we'll have to agree to disagree.

There is a lot of research for the best treatment methods for this disorder. In general, you can choose not to believe in therapy and not to use that course for yourself or your own children, but it helps thousands of adults and children. Watch a few episodes of Super Nanny and you can see that a lot of people aren't sure how to deal with their children's negative behaviors and need assistance from someone.

There are few psychiatrists who do behavioral therapy and behavioral therapy is used in every facet of life. Do you think we would work without the benefit of a paycheck? Would we follow laws without their being negative consequences to breaking a law?

Why do you think that psychology and psychiatry would be any different than other forms of medical treatment? We suddenly have an army of oncologists who can attack cancers with medications. It's called technology. We can look at people's genes and know that they are predisposed to certain illnesses and take steps to try to prevent them. We know what different parts of the brain do now. We are learning how to retrain the brain. We can do tests that examine what is happening in which parts of the brain when certain behaviors are occurring. It's science and it's evolving and growing every day.

I do believe that the trend currently is to overdiagnose, especially with kids. ADHD is frequently being diagnosed without doing the full battery of tests that should be done. Someone will take their child to a regular pediatrician, complaining that the child isn't paying attention in school and they get slapped with an ADHD diagnosis and given a script. I also think that medications are over-prescribed. As an Occupational Therapist, our focus is more on retraining how a child, particularly with ADHD is processing sensory stimulation and trying to retrain the brain to process it so that it doesn't cause central nervous system overstimulation. It's called Sensory Integration and has been tested and researched extensively with autistic and ADHD kids. It often involves teaching a child ways to calm him/herself to be able to focus by using sensory stimulus that inhibits the Central Nervous System. It's very similar to the methods we use to calm a baby... low lights, soft music, rocking, neutral warmth. Lately, it seems that everybody I talk to who has mood swings gets the Bi-Polar label and I think that is the diagnose of this decade.

Finally, I didn't respond to the OP because 1) I'm not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist and 2) a true mental health professional knows that it's unethical to provide advice of that type without doing a full evaluation of the individual in person.

[EE-BO]

I am sorry if I implied you were diagnosing via the internet- was not my intention.

I appreciate your eloquent words. It is difficult to respond without writing a very long post since the recent skyrocketing of overdiagnosis and prescription of drugs is something I follow closely.

As for psychology vs. psychiatry- I was attempting to state the former is a profession fraught with people who are diagnosing behaviors far beyond their skills. Part of this is the public wanting a cheaper health resource- but it scares me what many psychologists are doing with basically no training beyond a very easy to obtain college degree.