how to handle a thief?
 

i'm sure ive talked about this before on GC, but i really need some (current) advice on this. (sorry this is long)

my brother, we'll call him "Breeze" (a nickname of his by his friends, pretty approprite given the scenario i am about to set up). he's 17 and tends to be in and out of trouble. not really the "in and out of jail" kind but general f*cking up kind. most recently, he got kicked out of his Job Corps program and was sent home about a month ago. so now he's not in school nor working... has no GED/diploma to his name. doing basically nothing.

since Breeze has come home, things turn up missing. little things but mostly money. most recently i recalls $10 gone from my wallet. this morning my mother went off about $20 missing from her purse. she ripped us all new ones over it at the crack of dawn.

to give you some backup, in my house, there are 5 of us - my mom, me (the oldest), my sister (who is away at college but home on the usual breaks and then some weekends), and my 2 brothers. the older of the 2 is Breeze, and then there's my youngest brother. clearly i have no reason to steal - i work and im living rent-free: i cant ask for anything more. my sister, she's in school and her character - she doesnt have the heart to steal, much less from Mom. now i wouldnt put it past my youngest brother, but he would crack after so many attempts and given our financial situations, i am less likely to think he'd take money. he's done it before, but this particular time, im gonna go with no.

now some characteristics about Breeze: his presence is just that - a breeze, kinda in and out the area. not much noise, if at all. he can slip in and out the room and the house and we rarely notice. it bothers the f*ck outta me cause on one hand i can hear him in the background doing something but not exactly what. i get all paranoid and find myself checking up on him like "what is he up to?" he isnt much of a talker, and when we confront him about this thiefing, he either a. shrugs it off and goes about his day, or b. denies it flat out.

so we all assume it is Breeze taking our money, loose change and other belongings (ie. my brother's school bus pass, which is pretty costly). what he spends it on - who knows. i wouldnt be surprised if it was drugs or food or something. its definitely not material, cause he has no fancy new clothes or anything. maybe smokes? he's the only one who DOESNT have a story to tell about a missing item, and when the conversation comes up, he's silent Bob all of a sudden. anyway, what he spends it on is secondary to the issue that this sh!t actually happens.

the most we as a family do, is hide our stuff. but tht's annoying - why hide your stuff in your own home? and what good is it if he goes around snooping and will find it? my temporary solution is to buy everything on plastic and never bring cash home, but that backfires when i absolutely need cash.

there are bigger issues that feed into this, but right now i need some viable solutions because this is ridiculous. who knows what else will turn up gone next.

Hey, I'm sorry you are going through this. It's probably really stressful for your family. I think if I were your mom, it might be time to explain what the rules about living in her house are to Breeze. He's setting a pretty bad example for your little brother, and he may not need to stay with you all. If she's not up to that or it's just not in her to put conditions on sheltering her children, then maybe you can explain it to Breeze.

Stealing is not okay, even if it's from your own family. And no offense, but it seems like he's going to be in really serious trouble soon anyway. Best to get him away from your little brother and the rest of your family who are working hard and are successful or on track to be successful.

My mother's best friend just went though this a few years ago. Her son was on drugs and stealing things from her house while he lived there, as were the friends he had around when she was at work. He is now in a rehab and doing great. Just to get by she went out and bought a small safe, she put her purse in the safe when she was home and locked it. She also put a key lock on her bedroom door for when she was gone. I am sure it sounded mean to others, but she had to protect some of the most important things.

As to Alphagamuga I totally agree your mom should sit Breeze down and explain the rules. I just hope it sticks! In the meantime I would look into a good lock on your door just in case.

breeze needs counceling

don't give up on your brother

This all depends on your neighborhood (I live sort of "in the country") - but have you tried locking your cash in the glovebox of your car? That way, it's there when you need it, but you don't have to worry about anyone taking it.

He needs to be gone!

Confront Him and see waht He says.

If He pulls the same trigger then=

Dump him!

If he will not work it out then let him be gone!

Who ends up feeling the worse?:o

This topic happened to come up in one of my counseling classes the other night. We were talking about ODD (oppositional Defiant Disorder) and the far reaching effects. This type of behavior is one of the "symptoms" of ODD (not that i'm saying that Breeze has ODD but its just a symptom). Essentially its for attention that he does what he does, no matter if its negative or positive attention. My teacher was talking about CD (conduct disorder) and how kids will push and push and push to get you to hit them, because they WANT to be hit, because it makes them feel more alive and that is attention to them. (again, not that Breeze has CD because I definately do not think that he does- that is a much higher form of ODD)
but it might be worth checking and researching ODD because that might provide some insight into your situation.
I hope that helps... PM me if you want, I can ask my teacher about it more, but I personally don't know too much about it)

Do you really believe that ODD exists? What separates a simply bad person from an ODD person?

I think it's a huge mistake for society to approach behavior this way.

I am sorry, but this so-called disorder is just one more step down a path that is all about avoiding acceptance that human beings are not perfect and that sometimes the way to love someone is to be tough with them- not blame it on some "disorder" and then allow the behavior to continue.

How might one cure ODD? This story may be a symptom of ODD, but it is also a symptom of someone who is taking advantage of his family- and I think everyone knows the cure for that.

To the original poster- my thoughts in the hopes it helps.

I had a relative go through this and she finally kicked her son out- when he was 47 years old. And she is bitter to this day because she wasted so much of her life having to hide money and otherwise be a prisoner in her own home that she worked all her life to earn.

Each situation is different, but the facts you present suggest that your brother has decided that he can live with his current situation because he is still at home and has no motive to keep a job.

Under the current circumstances, do you think he is going to leave of his own free will if nothing changes? I suspect the answer is no- and so that puts the burden of action on your mother.

It sounds cruel- but the only answer is to throw him out in my opinion.

Now, you indicate that you live at home rent-free and that also has an impact. If you have the right to live at home rent-free, your brother has a reasonable expectation to be extended the same courtesy whether or not any child is entitled to such a thing once reaching 18 years of age.

The theft, assuming it is him, is what pushes it over the edge. This makes it clear that your brother has found his comfort zone in life, but that he cannot achieve it fully without stealing from his own family. In short- he has mapped out his life plan, and it includes stealing from you. How much longer do you want that to last?

And this is where I think you guys have to get tough and force him to leave. Or at the very least, let him live at home only if he works and pays for his own things to the extent you do.

Your mother is generous to let you guys stick around- and you clearly honor that generosity by working and doing right by yourself plus setting a good example for your brothers and sisters. I am willing to bet that you also help out around the house and by your presence make life better for your mother.

It appears your brother does not honor that generosity- and so for everyone's benefit I would suggest he be asked to leave unless he can find a job within a certain time frame or do any other thing (go back to school etc.) that your mother think will earn him a place to sleep rent-free.

That is not an easy thing to do, but I can point you to many examples I have seen first hand- including the one within my own family I mentioned above- where not doing that just made things worse.

If you think your brother is bad off now in the world, imagine my second cousin who at the age of 47 was looking for his first job ever. He got an easy break for 20 years, but he is virtually unemployable now- and having never paid into social security there are few safety nets for him once he reaches 65. He is far worse off than if he had been tossed out on his tail 20 years ago. He does not even have the basic mentality of needing to show up on time to a place of work. There is nothing out there for him.

Hope this helps and good luck to you.

After working in child and adolescent psych for 13 years, I saw a lot of ODD. It definitely exists. Children are not simply "bad". ODD kids respond to a consistent environment and therapy and, sometimes, medication.

Your premise is all wrong here.

Per your words, there are two choices when these kinds of symptoms emerge- either the child is "bad" or he has ODD.

How do you define "bad"? Even you are putting the term in quotes which suggests to me you have no idea how to quantify it.

The truth is you cannot define "bad" because it is not a choice at all- but merely a false alternative you wish to present in the most disparaging manner possible to support the concept of ODD.

And how is ODD treated? With therapy and medication. Therapy and medication that provide a financial benefit to the prescribing therapist. Your personal financial gain is thus established, but where is the evidence that this is even a treatable condition?

A man of adult age is living at home with his mother, cannot hold a job, is stealing from his own family (you are working on conjecture here- so I will too, trust me this young man is stealing from his family)- and to me that says it all.

Maybe there is some oblique, difficult to define mental issue here- but how does that help anyone deal with the realities of the situation? How many people have the luxury of money and time to figure that out?

I find it amazing that after thousands of years of human evolution and success as the dominant species on this planet that we are suddenly faced with an army of psychologists who can identify all these mysterious illnesses plaguing humanity that can only be treated with therapy and drugs.

When I was in college, people got degrees in psychology because they were too stupid and/or lazy to major in something else. The truly gifted with endeavors of the human psyche became psychiatrists- not psychologists.

It is easy to say your kid just need more nurturing- especially if you can pay someone to give that guidance or get it in bottled form. But I would love to see enduring evidence that such approaches provide long-term meaningful results.

Addiction to drugs like Ritalin seem a far more serious trouble for society at large than kids who had to grow up and realize life is not perfect like the rest of us.

Everyone is writing long paragraphs. I'll just give you one sentence: Beat him.

-Rudey

I was replying to alphagamuga who asked how one knows that ODD exists and whether someone is just a "bad person", not the OP, who is talking about someone is almost an adult. ODD is a childhood disorder, not an adult disorder. I don't believe that babies are born bad. I don't think people are bad. I think people sometimes behave badly, but I don't think that makes them bad people. I suppose some people do and they can believe that if they wish. It doesn't fit with my belief system. That will be an area where we'll have to agree to disagree.

There is a lot of research for the best treatment methods for this disorder. In general, you can choose not to believe in therapy and not to use that course for yourself or your own children, but it helps thousands of adults and children. Watch a few episodes of Super Nanny and you can see that a lot of people aren't sure how to deal with their children's negative behaviors and need assistance from someone.

There are few psychiatrists who do behavioral therapy and behavioral therapy is used in every facet of life. Do you think we would work without the benefit of a paycheck? Would we follow laws without their being negative consequences to breaking a law?

Why do you think that psychology and psychiatry would be any different than other forms of medical treatment? We suddenly have an army of oncologists who can attack cancers with medications. It's called technology. We can look at people's genes and know that they are predisposed to certain illnesses and take steps to try to prevent them. We know what different parts of the brain do now. We are learning how to retrain the brain. We can do tests that examine what is happening in which parts of the brain when certain behaviors are occurring. It's science and it's evolving and growing every day.

I do believe that the trend currently is to overdiagnose, especially with kids. ADHD is frequently being diagnosed without doing the full battery of tests that should be done. Someone will take their child to a regular pediatrician, complaining that the child isn't paying attention in school and they get slapped with an ADHD diagnosis and given a script. I also think that medications are over-prescribed. As an Occupational Therapist, our focus is more on retraining how a child, particularly with ADHD is processing sensory stimulation and trying to retrain the brain to process it so that it doesn't cause central nervous system overstimulation. It's called Sensory Integration and has been tested and researched extensively with autistic and ADHD kids. It often involves teaching a child ways to calm him/herself to be able to focus by using sensory stimulus that inhibits the Central Nervous System. It's very similar to the methods we use to calm a baby... low lights, soft music, rocking, neutral warmth. Lately, it seems that everybody I talk to who has mood swings gets the Bi-Polar label and I think that is the diagnose of this decade.

Finally, I didn't respond to the OP because 1) I'm not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist and 2) a true mental health professional knows that it's unethical to provide advice of that type without doing a full evaluation of the individual in person.

I am sorry if I implied you were diagnosing via the internet- was not my intention.

I appreciate your eloquent words. It is difficult to respond without writing a very long post since the recent skyrocketing of overdiagnosis and prescription of drugs is something I follow closely.

As for psychology vs. psychiatry- I was attempting to state the former is a profession fraught with people who are diagnosing behaviors far beyond their skills. Part of this is the public wanting a cheaper health resource- but it scares me what many psychologists are doing with basically no training beyond a very easy to obtain college degree.