The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[laylo]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

There has been outrage, nobody debated that. What we're saying is that there is a double standard on how it occurs, how intense it is, and how much of the population it includes.

If the mainstream media overlooked it, its probably not mainstream. Now thats probably partially the fault of the media itself, but I simply have seen no evidence that it exists on the scale that it does when it comes to things like the Imus situation.

It is to be expected that the response to a one-time statement or outburst is going to be different from the response to music by hundreds of artsists continuously playing 24-7 on thousands of radio stations all over the world. I don't think that shows that the anger is less intense or on a smaller scale.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by laylo

It is to be expected that the response to a one-time statement or outburst is going to be different from the response to music by hundreds of artsists continuously playing 24-7 on thousands of radio stations all over the world. I don't think that shows that the anger is less intense or on a smaller scale.

I'm not sure it would conclusively show that either, but I do think the anger is on a smaller scale and generally less intense. Actually, I think it makes sense that it would be, because I think black people are likely personally impacted less when they take action to get someone like Imus fired.

I didn't see protests outside BET regarding "Uncut". If I wanted things like Uncut off the air, I'd agree, its a step in the right direction, but I still think its quite distinct from situations like the Imus one. Goes back to intensity. Also, that music is still out there, being played all the time, listened to by tons of people (whites too, I know). The images are gone (to a degree), but the message is clearly still out there. Is there a large scale movement to get all the offensive rap off the airwaves?

Once again, I don't want all offensive rap music off the air, just like I don't want offensive people like Imus off the air.

[Little32]

I guess it is difficult for me to carry on a conversation with someone who is clearly not educated about the black community. Those "subdued" leaders that you reference are the ones that have the real mobilizing power within our communities. Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright is given more credence that Al Sharpton by most of the people that I know ("educated" or "uneducated," rich or poor)--but you probably don't have any idea who that is.

Go and talk to some black people (interesting proposition hunh). Ask them who their leaders are, who mobilizes them to action--better yet, listen too what the black people who post here are saying--and then reevaluate your notion of black community leadership, because it is wrong.

But I guess we probably can't tell you that because our experience doesn't mean anything in the face of your "supposed" empirical evidence.

[unspokenone25]

BRAVO, Soror Little32!

Originally Posted by Little32

I guess it is difficult for me to carry on a conversation with someone who is clearly not educated about the black community. Those "subdued" leaders that you reference are the ones that have the real mobilizing power within our communities. Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright is given more credence that Al Sharpton by most of the people that I know ("educated" or "uneducated," rich or poor)--but you probably don't have any idea who that is.

Go and talk to some black people (interesting proposition hunh). Ask them who their leaders are, who mobilizes them to action--better yet, listen too what the black people who post here are saying--and then reevaluate your notion of black community leadership, because it is wrong.

But I guess we probably can't tell you that because our experience doesn't mean anything in the face of your "supposed" empirical evidence.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by unspokenone25

BRAVO, Soror Little32!

haha, never ceases to amaze.

[unspokenone25]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

haha, never ceases to amaze.

Same can be said about you.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by unspokenone25

Same can be said about you.

That I never cease to amaze? Kind words, thank you.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by unspokenone25

BRAVO, Soror Little32!

Thank you Soror! *Takes a bow.*

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Little32

I guess it is difficult for me to carry on a conversation with someone who is clearly not educated about the black community. Those "subdued" leaders that you reference are the ones that have the real mobilizing power within our communities. Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright is given more credence that Al Sharpton by most of the people that I know ("educated" or "uneducated," rich or poor)--but you probably don't have any idea who that is.

Go and talk to some black people (interesting proposition hunh). Ask them who their leaders are, who mobilizes them to action--better yet, listen too what the black people who post here are saying--and then reevaluate your notion of black community leadership, because it is wrong.

But I guess we probably can't tell you that because our experience doesn't mean anything in the face of your "supposed" empirical evidence.

Your defensiveness is likely indicative of your lack of objectivity in this matter. I never claimed to be as in touch with the black community as someone like you would be, as a member. However, as an outsider, I also have no personal interest in protecting the image of the community (I also don't have much interest in seeing it damaged, either).

This...
"Go and talk to some black people (interesting proposition hunh)."

...was evidence enough for me. A lack in civility certainly doesn't aid your message.

As for Jeremiah Wright and mobilizing power, where is the mobilization? Once again, we're talking about large scale action in the mainstream. He obviously has a following among the educated and the faithful, but I don't see what your point is. I don't see him creating a whirlwind over the playing of rap music over the airways. I don't see the protests, so show me. Where is the intensity, after all thats what we're talking about.

For the 2409758th time, nobody is saying theres not some rebellion/action/whatever inside the black community, what I'm saying is that there isn't the fervor or the large scale outrage you see with the Imus or the Duke situation.

[Little32]

Exactly. You can't see my point, mostly because you don't want to, and so I am done with you in regards to this matter.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Little32

Exactly. You can't see my point, mostly because you don't want to, and so I am done with you in regards to this matter.

I see your point, I disagree with it. You apparently have a severe problem with someone opposing your viewpoints, and so it isn't surprising that you're "done with [me]." Thanks for the conversation.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I'm not sure it would conclusively show that either, but I do think the anger is on a smaller scale and generally less intense. Actually, I think it makes sense that it would be, because I think black people are likely personally impacted less when they take action to get someone like Imus fired.

I wouldn't judge thge reality of how people feel by news coverage, which is meant to be sensational and attention-grabbing. I doubt that any Black scholars will be writing books about racism and outrageous radio personalities or psycho comedians, but many books have addressed misogyny and hypermasculinity in hip hop. Black people in the various communities I interact with regularly did not spend much time talking about Imus in our homes and with our friends (It was more just "Have you heard..."), but I've spent hours in heated conversations about misogyny and hypermasculinity in hip hop with Black people in all socio-economic situations.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I didn't see protests outside BET regarding "Uncut". If I wanted things like Uncut off the air, I'd agree, its a step in the right direction, but I still think its quite distinct from situations like the Imus one. Goes back to intensity. Also, that music is still out there, being played all the time, listened to by tons of people (whites too, I know). The images are gone (to a degree), but the message is clearly still out there. Is there a large scale movement to get all the offensive rap off the airwaves?

Once again, I don't want all offensive rap music off the air, just like I don't want offensive people like Imus off the air.

I also don't advocate censorship, but people who do surely recognize that getting all offensive rap off the airwaves is not a realistic endeavor, especially considering the enormous amount of money made by it, mostly off of White youth.

I do think that Black men are generally less angry about misogyny than they are about racism, but I think that is to be expected. Unfortunately Black male voices are often seen as the only (important) Black voices.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by laylo

I wouldn't judge thge reality of how people feel by news coverage, which is meant to be sensational and attention-grabbing. I doubt that any Black scholars will be writing books about racism and outrageous radio personalities or psycho comedians, but many books have addressed misogyny and hypermasculinity in hip hop. Black people in the various communities I interact with regularly did not spend much time talking about Imus in our homes and with our friends (It was more just "Have you heard..."), but I've spent hours in heated conversations about misogyny and hypermasculinity in hip hop with Black people in all socio-economic situations.



I also don't advocate censorship, but people who do surely recognize that getting all offensive rap off the airwaves is not a realistic endeavor, especially considering the enormous amount of money made by it, mostly off of White youth.

I do think that Black men are generally less angry about misogyny than they are about racism, but I think that is to be expected. Unfortunately Black male voices are often seen as the only (important) Black voices.

I agree with this. I don't judge on entirely on media coverage. But lets be honest. I can say "you know, most people I know could give a damn about Anna Nicole", but people still do care, the discussion is out there. Thats why I say its tough for yall (and me, in other matters) to say that our surroundings and are feelings are reflective of society at large.

Also, regarding rap censorship, I agree, I don't want to change it. Now, if its BET Uncut at 3pm on weekdays, sure, that should probably be altered. Also, the content of rap as a whole generally conflicts with what I would believe in, but still, I don't feel that warrants it being taken out of the public arena. However, I don't feel that just because of its popularity there shouldn't be a level of outrage. I do agree, its not that feasible, but I don't think that removes it from the valid comparison category. I don't think the reason for a lack of protest regarding rap is the fact that its not feasible to get rid of it. I think that may impact some people's decisions, but I think there are more pervasive factors. I simply think that people aren't as offended by rap, and therefore less action is taken. The question then becomes, why aren't they as offended? I think there are many people who would give lipservice, saying sure, it offends me, but thats where the protest ends. I think this contrasts greatly with the Duke or Imus situation, wherein lies the double standard, at least from my perspective.

Sorry if thats not overly intelligible, stream of consciousness, if you will.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I agree with this. I don't judge on entirely on media coverage. But lets be honest. I can say "you know, most people I know could give a damn about Anna Nicole", but people still do care, the discussion is out there. Thats why I say its tough for yall (and me, in other matters) to say that our surroundings and are feelings are reflective of society at large.

The discussion is out there, but it is minimal. And the discussion is also out there about hip hop, but there isn't a hot story right now that has everyone talking at the same time. Discussion about Imus will fade quickly as the story gets old, but discussion of offensive hip hop will remain.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I do agree, its not that feasible, but I don't think that removes it from the valid comparison category. I don't think the reason for a lack of protest regarding rap is the fact that its not feasible to get rid of it. I think that may impact some people's decisions, but I think there are more pervasive factors. I simply think that people aren't as offended by rap, and therefore less action is taken. The question then becomes, why aren't they as offended? I think there are many people who would give lipservice, saying sure, it offends me, but thats where the protest ends. I think this contrasts greatly with the Duke or Imus situation, wherein lies the double standard, at least from my perspective.

I would argue that most people only paid lipservice to the Imus situation as well. And the number of people who went further is far smaller than the number who have gone further concerning hip hop over the years. But in the case of hip hop there isn't an easy action we can take against it, such as calling an organization and demanding that an employee be fired. For the most part all we can do to combat it is to discuss, write, and teach, and a whole lot of people are doing that.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by laylo

But in the case of hip hop there isn't an easy action we can take against it, such as calling an organization and demanding that an employee be fired. For the most part all we can do to combat it is to discuss, write, and teach, and a whole lot of people are doing that.

Where we spend our $$$$$ may do more than we think though. I noticed with Imus, that once his sponsors started pullng from his show, he went from a 2 week suspension, to being booted from MSNBC, to being fired from CBS. FAST.

Money talks. Perhaps if we threatened to stop patronizing those companies that use those rappers that make their money from degrading women(ie Snoop Dogg/ 50 Cent/etc.) as their spokensperson(s) it will cause the same type of chain reaction. Some companies also own music labels that specialize in promoting artist that make this type of music (ex. Sony). Boycotting not only the label but the company itself would definitely get their attention. I'm sure if Sony saw a dip in their playstation, computer, etc. sales (especially during the holiday season), they would take notice.

In short, let's start hitting people in the pocketbook - not only the rappers but those that sponsor and promote it as well.

Disclaimer - when I say "rappers" I only mean those that degrade/humilate women in their lyrics.