More Hazing

[KyleMcGuire1983]

this problem seems to be extremely severe in BGLOs. This is definitely NOT the first time I've heard of this happening with Alpha Phi Alpha pledges. I'm shocked that APhiA national has not taken more firm steps in ensuring this doesn't happen anymore. This activity is the sort that gets an entire chapter shut down with most GLOs.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

this problem seems to be extremely severe in BGLOs. This is definitely NOT the first time I've heard of this happening with Alpha Phi Alpha pledges. I'm shocked that APhiA national has not taken more firm steps in ensuring this doesn't happen anymore. This activity is the sort that gets an entire chapter shut down with most GLOs.

Hi there, I'm in Alpha lane, which you seem to be swerving into right now. Before I shoot your tires out and drive around you, I'm just curious -- why do you think my fraternity hasn't "taken more firm steps in ensuring this doesn't happen anymore?"

[pinkies up]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Hi there, I'm in Alpha lane, which you seem to be swerving into right now. Before I shoot your tires out and drive around you, I'm just curious -- why do you think my fraternity hasn't "taken more firm steps in ensuring this doesn't happen anymore?"

Oh Lawd, it's on now. (getting some popcorn)

ETA: I know he doesn't think the white fraternities don't haze. Don't get me started on their "fertility rituals" I've heard about!

[PhDiva]

Originally Posted by pinkies up

ETA: I know he doesn't think the white fraternities don't haze. Don't get me started on their "fertility rituals" I've heard about!

LOL...I'm saying SisterGreek

I remember hearing about the nekkid beach runs with bananas tucked between pledges butt cheeks and the last two had to eat the banana from each other. Yep, white frats don't haze.

[AOE2AlphaPhi]

I know I'm new to the boards, but shouldn't this be in risk management? If not, can someone PM me and say why?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by AOE2AlphaPhi

I know I'm new to the boards, but shouldn't this be in risk management? If not, can someone PM me and say why?

Good point. Maybe a mod hasn't been around to move it yet.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Originally Posted by pinkies up

Oh Lawd, it's on now. (getting some popcorn)

ETA: I know he doesn't think the white fraternities don't haze. Don't get me started on their "fertility rituals" I've heard about!

Well I've never heard of Fertility Rituals but I have heard of all kinds of hazing on the part of NIC fraternities.....I just rarely hear about them physically beating pledges....it's usually something like drinking them to death or humiliating them (which isn't better really) all I know is that you've gotta be one dumbass punk to let a bunch of 20 year olds torture you for one or two semesters just to get initiated.

Sorry if I've lighted a gas soaked rag on this thread but hazing drives me nuts and I have no respect for people that partake in it as "character" building. Unlike most people on this forum I've had the advantage of going through hazing and non-hazing pledge programs by going through a local non-greek "Society" and a national greek fraternity founded against hazing. It should be pretty obvious which organization I pride myself on and which I don't even talk about anymore.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

Well I've never heard of Fertility Rituals but I have heard of all kinds of hazing on the part of NIC fraternities.....I just rarely hear about them physically beating pledges....it's usually something like drinking them to death or humiliating them (which isn't better really) all I know is that you've gotta be one dumbass punk to let a bunch of 20 year olds torture you for one or two semesters just to get initiated.

So what is your point, really?

There is no dignity or pride in being "forced" to drink alcohol to the point where you can cause serious harm to yourself or die. A person who is injured or killed through alcohol is no less of a dumbass punk than the one hurt or killed through beatings.

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Hi there, I'm in Alpha lane, which you seem to be swerving into right now. Before I shoot your tires out and drive around you, I'm just curious -- why do you think my fraternity hasn't "taken more firm steps in ensuring this doesn't happen anymore?"

Because I think there's a real image problem here man. All four of my school's councils went on a retreat together and after playing the stereotype game (yes it's a real game we play, and apparently NIC fraternities are all snobby white date rapists) the elephant in the room was NPHC and their notorious hazing methods (severe beatings, etc).

Now I guess you could take the easy road and pin me as a racist, but you have to admit that there is a hardcore element of physical hazing impressed on the NPHC culture.

Some things remain the same: The "white" NIC houses get busted having "Ghetto Parties" or they force a pledge to drink himself to death and the media goes nuts. The NPHC houses get busted beating the crap out of a pledge and he winds up in the hospital and the media goes nuts.

Now the APhiA thing.....it could be that there is a real epidemic here OR it could be that APhiA gets the most hazing stories because they're the largest BGLO.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

Because I think there's a real image problem here man. All four of my school's councils went on a retreat together and after playing the stereotype game (yes it's a real game we play, and apparently NIC fraternities are all snobby white date rapists) the elephant in the room was NPHC and their notorious hazing methods (severe beatings, etc).

Now I guess you could take the easy road and pin me as a racist, but you have to admit that there is a hardcore element of physical hazing impressed on the NPHC culture.

Some things remain the same: The "white" NIC houses get busted having "Ghetto Parties" or they force a pledge to drink himself to death and the media goes nuts. The NPHC houses get busted beating the crap out of a pledge and he winds up in the hospital and the media goes nuts.

Now the APhiA thing.....it could be that there is a real epidemic here OR it could be that APhiA gets the most hazing stories because they're the largest BGLO.

YOU haven't answered my question. Nobody is calling you a racist. I do, however, think you need to stay in your lane on YOUR campus.

The difference between you and I is when a fraternity (or SEVERAL) have racist parties or drink a pledge to death, I still don't view it as an issue that your ENTIRE NATIONAL ORGANIZATION has failed to address. I view it as some members breaking the rules. I would expect that same courtesy from a fellow Greek.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

Now the APhiA thing.....it could be that there is a real epidemic here OR it could be that APhiA gets the most hazing stories because they're the largest BGLO.

On your campus?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

this problem seems to be extremely severe in BGLOs. This is definitely NOT the first time I've heard of this happening with Alpha Phi Alpha pledges. I'm shocked that APhiA national has not taken more firm steps in ensuring this doesn't happen anymore. This activity is the sort that gets an entire chapter shut down with most GLOs.

You sound as if you think these are sanctioned actuivities. All of the D9 orgs have policies and procedures in place to stop this. But if someone is bent on doing wrong, they will do it regardless.

And yes we suspend individuals and whole chapters. Heck we even expel individuals for life.

[BlueReign]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

And yes we suspend individuals and whole chapters. Heck we even expel individuals for life.

Amen. and for much less than this.

[Wolfman]

The problem here is too much defensiveness. The truth is that for historically white and historically black GLOs there are differing cultures of hazing, which go beyond talk of individual responsibility and transcend national Greek affiliation. Yes, alcohol abuse is a very serious (and ocaasionally deadly!) problem with the former and physical hazing represents the same for the latter. We have to look at these things head on.

I see the "white groups" instituting all kinds of educational programs, including "dry houses" (which many actives and chapters disregard or rebel against said programs) and you still see the stories of deaths due to alcohol poisonings; and physical hazing continues to be single biggest threat to the survivial of BGLOs,even though pledging was done away with. In truth, now,it's simply become a sub rosa ("underground") activity.

It's not so much about the sensationalized stories of hazing by whatever BGLO gets the headlines for an egregious hazing incident, where the Nupes and the Apes have garnered the most headlines recently, it's about the fact that this is the tip of the iceberg, extreme examples of common place behaviour. The same goes for "white" groups and alcohol abuse. On the whole, though, I do think the "white" groups have addressed the alcohol abuse problem in their groups in a more integral way than BGLOs have physical hazing, as a part of the "culture" of the organizations. (Just as we are not fully comfortable in dealing with the issue of homophobia in the context of the AIDS crisis in the African American community at large---from the street corner to the church.) This is what Prof. Ricky Jones, Ph.D. (a Nupe) is trying to do with his book, "Black Haze"; he has received chilly if not hostile responses from some Black Greeks for his radical means of addressing physical hazing:dismantling the organizations if they don't deal with this issue forthright.

We're past the point of defensiveness. Ultimately, Greek Life as we know it is at stake--for all groups. This is the real issue.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

The problem here is too much defensiveness.

No.

The problem is figuring out why that poster is acting like an NIC culture of binge drinking and whatever the hell else they do is remotely more noble than an alleged NPHC culture of paddling/beating. Every national body does things to prevent hazing and punishes those who are caught. Hazing still happens for every type of organization. The form of hazing doesn't matter.

Moving on.