South vs. North?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Culturally, Texas and the Deep South are two different worlds.

Social order and formal courtesies are far more closely observed in the Deep South than they are in Texas.

And in Texas we are far more flamboyant with our wealth. This is evident in Greek life. I have been to some awesome parties at Georgia and Auburn, but the chapter dues and budgets at UT-Austin are far in excess of anything I have ever seen at any school. When I was at UT- my chapter dues were 3-4 times my tuition every semester (and my dues were the cheapest possible since I had a private room in the chapter house.)

I would attribute it to oil. That wealth came fast and furious to this state- and to this day there is still enormous money to be had. I know of cases where people owning less than 1% of a share in a field started getting 5 and 6 digit royalty checks when an old field was reopened to extract remaining reserves using new technology (usually injection with salt water or directional drilling.) And this state is full of people who still own tiny shares in fields that, although with increasing rarity, can still make them millionaires in a very short time. That oil is running out- but this gives you an idea of what kind of money we are talking about when a tiny piece of interest in a single field can generate that kind of income for one person.

There is similar wealth remaining in the Deep South, but much of it originates from far older fortunes. And those who still hold those fortunes kept them with generations of a more conservative approach.

Going back to Greek life, a good example of this conservative and ritualistic difference is football games.

When I was going to Georgia, we wore khakis and a white shirt and tie to the games. Our dates wore black cocktail dresses. Game days started with a buffet at the house, then the game, then home to clean up, dinner- again either at the house or large groups going to nice restaurants- and then a band party. Going to a football game was an all day ritual with strict dress code and social procedure.

At Texas- nothing like that. Jeans and a T-shirt for the game. Sneak all the booze in you can (though we did that at Georgia too), dinner whenever and wherever with whoever, and then a band party after.

While Texas is my home and I prefer it here- games days at Georgia were as good as college life got.

1.) I disagree with "Social order and formal courtesies are far more closely observed in the Deep South than they are in Texas." This can purely depend on how you were raised and the environment that you grew up in.

2.) I don't know if it was different when you were at Texas......but our gamedays are exactly the same as you describe it for SEC schools...and have been since I have been here. FIJI, KA, SAE........we all do that same routine. Its an all day affair, brunches, dinners, lots of alumni, etc. The dress.....yeah its different. Usually jeans, boots and a button down or khakis, boots, and a button down.

[JonInKC]

[banditone]

Holy Jebus. I couldn't imagine the sweat stench coming from the greek area if the fraternities actually do wear coat and tie to games at UT. It is F'IN HOT in Texas during football season.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by banditone

Holy Jebus. I couldn't imagine the sweat stench coming from the greek area if the fraternities actually do wear coat and tie to games at UT. It is F'IN HOT in Texas during football season.

Just as hot in the Southeast, 'cept more humidity. I don't usually wear a coat, but I do wear a button down oxford with a red tie.

[Cloud5_DST]

This is an interesting conversation. I was born in the Midwest (right outside of Chicago, IL), but raised in DC (which everyone considers the north, but I consider the "middle," lol). But almost my whole family on both sides is in the south. Split between GA and TN. So I've spent a lot of time everywhere. And unlike some, I gather, when I think deep south, I undoubtedley count TN.

~J

[shinerbock]

I don't consider D.C. too north. I mean, Its not southern by any stretch, but its not something I identify with being a yankee city. There are a lot of southerners in D.C., and in the right places there are signs of southern culture. I'd take it over Atlanta.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by macallan25

1.) I disagree with "Social order and formal courtesies are far more closely observed in the Deep South than they are in Texas." This can purely depend on how you were raised and the environment that you grew up in.

2.) I don't know if it was different when you were at Texas......but our gamedays are exactly the same as you describe it for SEC schools...and have been since I have been here. FIJI, KA, SAE........we all do that same routine. Its an all day affair, brunches, dinners, lots of alumni, etc. The dress.....yeah its different. Usually jeans, boots and a button down or khakis, boots, and a button down.

On #1- I am from Houston and above you state you are from Tyler- so we were in very different environments. I would imagine you were raised in a more ordered and formal societal environment much like the remains of my family in Teague and Victoria (from the days before trashy people infested those two cities.) That exists in Houston too, but it is just not quite the same I think, in part, because the country clubs, private schools etc. are far more accessible to a wider range of people. And it is a little bit easier to marry into or financially work your way into those inner circles.

On #2- The two really are about the same, it is just that at Georgia it was so much more formal and a really planned out event, if that makes sense. At least that is how it was for my fraternity- so could be my chapter at UT was different from others or it could be the time difference in when you and I went to school there. The actual list of what happens in a day is about the same- but at GA we all did it together and it was a real event. It was the best part about being Greek.

The differences are subtle in both cases- and I pay them little mind or care anymore now that I am out of school and out in the world- but you can't help but notice them.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

I concur.


Mac, what town is your family in, in Southeast Missouri? I have a lot of family in that area, my family just inherited a small ranch near the Mississipi

What part of southeast Missouri? I am from southeast Missouri, too.

[ladygreek]

Yay at all of the Show Me Staters on here!

[pinstrypes]

The very topic of this thread is a debate that only exists in the minds of southerns. Here in the north, we don't concern ourselves with this useless distinction.

I have never heard a person from the "the north" say "I wonder which is better, the north or the south". While almost every person I've ever met who is from "the south" has said something like "Well, down south we do it like this" or "If you were from the south you would know..." implying that the south is superior in some way.

If it the south really was "better" in some way, everyone in the county would think so, not just the people who live there.

[macallan25]

Thanks, we don't really give a shit what you think...up in The North.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

What part of southeast Missouri? I am from southeast Missouri, too.

Cape Girardeau and Jackson.

My family inherited a ranch with mostly Mississippi flood land on it... I think it has corn? on it. Only 100 acres or so, the rest of the family got the rest of it.

[SWTXBelle]

pinstrypes, I assure you as a southerner who lived for years in New Jersey- northerners think about it a LOT - and delight in being rude and obnoxious about their self-perceived superiority. "At least we won the War!" is their idea of a witty retort.
Even when they (Yankees) come south, they are so bad about it that a very popular bumper sticker is "I don't care how you did it up north!". Houston saw a lot of "Well, this is how we do it up north" during the last oil boom in the 80s (dating myself here).
I managed the crystal department at a Macy's store in Texas- couldn't get them to stock iced tea glasses for love or money. I was not surprised when they had to pull out of most of their Texas stores in the 80s. Their thinking was, we don't drink iced tea, so why carry the glasses? We are from NEW YORK, the only place in the world that matters.
I am glad you do not indulge in this type of rude and stupid thinking, but please believe me, it does exist.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

pinstrypes, I assure you as a southerner who lived for years in New Jersey- northerners think about it a LOT - and delight in being rude and obnoxious about their self-perceived superiority. "At least we won the War!" is their idea of a witty retort.
Even when they (Yankees) come south, they are so bad about it that a very popular bumper sticker is "I don't care how you did it up north!". Houston saw a lot of "Well, this is how we do it up north" during the last oil boom in the 80s (dating myself here).
I managed the crystal department at a Macy's store in Texas- couldn't get them to stock iced tea glasses for love or money. I was not surprised when they had to pull out of most of their Texas stores in the 80s. Their thinking was, we don't drink iced tea, so why carry the glasses? We are from NEW YORK, the only place in the world that matters.
I am glad you do not indulge in this type of rude and stupid thinking, but please believe me, it does exist.

I've lived in the north all my life, did my ug in Jersey, and lived in the South for grad school for a short stint, and coming from my experience it isn't something northerners think about all that much. I've personally had maybe one conversation with a southerner about the whole north vs. south thing, and I wasn't even too much a participant in that conversation because it was assinine. I've heard the "At least we won the war" comment like once or twice, at best. It's just "regionalcentrism" at it's best. Northerners do it when the go south just as much as Southerners do it when they go north.

[SWTXBelle]

CH2tf - so you had maybe one conversation about this with a southerner, but you heard the "At least we won the war" comment once or twice? Doesn't that kind of prove my point? The fact that you had only the one conversation despite going to grad school in the south seems to also support another observation of mine - that most southerners are too polite to bring up the subject.
In all my years in NJ I never brought up the subject - but upon hearing my accent northerners felt obliged to comment on the north vs. south thing. If southerners were exactly the same, you should have been the reciepient of many of the same kind of comments I was subjected to, and yet by your own admission you were not.
Sociologists have noted that southerners tend to identify with their region to an extent that northerners do not; linguists have found to their surprise that instead of dying out, regional accents are in fact continuing to be an important identifying charcteristic of regional groups. I would hope that everyone could appreciate regional differences without resorting to insults.
I don't want grits in Maine, scrapple in Georgia, Tex-Mex in Tennessee or Philly Cheese steaks in Florida. I'm using food as my metaphor, but I'm personally glad that different areas of the country continue to be unique, and only wish everyone could appreciate the diversity of this country. Years as an Air Force brat taught me that there is something to enjoy no matter where you live. I enjoy visiting other areas of the country, and have often decried in my newspaper column the spread of strip centers and chain restaurants - too many areas of the country look exactly alike!
I'm also very glad I live in the south - told my husband the Yalie that I'd follow him anywhere, as long as it was below the Mason-Dixon.