Delta Zeta Reportedly Sues DePauw

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by DGMarie

If Depauw wanted, could they not require that Delta Zeta put into evidence materials related to their membership selection process or Initiation requirements as part of their case? We at work are often asked to provide materials for opposing counsel in times of litigation. It's part of the discovery process I believe. I'm sure there are lots of little things in secret parts here and their that when scrutinized by the right people can make anyone look bad. I agree this is a trainwreck.

I would guess (and hope) that Delta Zeta would claim ritual (membership selection) to be privileged information. And anything related to ritual as well.

[DGMarie]

I wonder if that would fly considering that Delta Zeta is claiming they have no such discrimination policies actual or implied. As Depauw's attorney I would think such information on membership selection would be pertinent to the case. I'd ask for everything they have under the moon, back a big old Rider truck up to their HQ and say load it up. But then I'm not an attorney so I get to make it up as I go!

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by DGMarie

I wonder if that would fly considering that Delta Zeta is claiming they have no such discrimination policies actual or implied. As Depauw's attorney I would think such information on membership selection would be pertinent to the case. I'd ask for everything they have under the moon, back a big old Rider truck up to their HQ and say load it up. But then I'm not an attorney so I get to make it up as I go!

I thought Delta Zeta already made public certain membership policies with respect to discrimination. Most GLOs have their policies "out there" and available to the public. The whole "We do not discriminate based on..."

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by TSteven

I thought Delta Zeta already made public certain membership policies with respect to discrimination. Most GLOs have their policies "out there" and available to the public. The whole "We do not discriminate based on..."

Just because they have that statement on their website does not neccessarily mean it is adhered to everywhere (and that's for everyone, not just DZ chapters).

Since membership selection is private and so is the "business" that each GLO conducts, who's to say Suzie Q didn't get into XYZ because of her race, weight, dress size, or how popular she is with the guys? She might be involved in lots of things on campus and someone can say she'd be too busy to be commited to the chapter and that could be it and use that as an excuse to not put her on bid lists or to put her on the "Congratulations! You're a great sister and you can live the rest of your collegiate life as an alumna with all the rights and privilages of an active sister.... except you can't wear letters or come by the house" list

[LPIDelta]

I am not an expert but one of the things I got out of my higher education law class was that if you don't protect your rights, they can be taken away. Yeah, its true--DZ may suffer in numbers or reputation by pursuing this suit. And as an administrator, I would be hesitant about bringing a group to campus that was known for suing another school.

But I wonder--wouldn't it be worse if we, GLOs, lost the right to decide who our members are? Wouldn't it be worse if we didn't have a right to be autonomous and run our organizations by our own values? (This is also why many orgs are resistant to university efforts for values congruence relationship statements etc.)

We need to protect our rights.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Heather17

I am not an expert but one of the things I got out of my higher education law class was that if you don't protect your rights, they can be taken away. Yeah, its true--DZ may suffer in numbers or reputation by pursuing this suit. And as an administrator, I would be hesitant about bringing a group to campus that was known for suing another school.

But I wonder--wouldn't it be worse if we, GLOs, lost the right to decide who our members are? Wouldn't it be worse if we didn't have a right to be autonomous and run our organizations by our own values? (This is also why many orgs are resistant to university efforts for values congruence relationship statements etc.)

We need to protect our rights.

Well said!

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by Heather17

I am not an expert but one of the things I got out of my higher education law class was that if you don't protect your rights, they can be taken away. Yeah, its true--DZ may suffer in numbers or reputation by pursuing this suit. And as an administrator, I would be hesitant about bringing a group to campus that was known for suing another school.

But I wonder--wouldn't it be worse if we, GLOs, lost the right to decide who our members are? Wouldn't it be worse if we didn't have a right to be autonomous and run our organizations by our own values? (This is also why many orgs are resistant to university efforts for values congruence relationship statements etc.)

We need to protect our rights.

I personally do not agree they should have any legs to stand on because they have never handled this situation in a manner that leads me (and many people) to believe they are completely innocent in all the things that happened.

If they are going to take on the "OMG WE'RE A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION AND WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DISMISS WHOEVER WE WANT TO BECAUSE WE'RE A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION AND WE ARE ON THIS CRUSADE FOR ALL OF GREEKDOM" then hey, more power to them, but not everyone is going to buy it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Heather17

I am not an expert but one of the things I got out of my higher education law class was that if you don't protect your rights, they can be taken away. Yeah, its true--DZ may suffer in numbers or reputation by pursuing this suit. And as an administrator, I would be hesitant about bringing a group to campus that was known for suing another school.

But I wonder--wouldn't it be worse if we, GLOs, lost the right to decide who our members are? Wouldn't it be worse if we didn't have a right to be autonomous and run our organizations by our own values? (This is also why many orgs are resistant to university efforts for values congruence relationship statements etc.)

We need to protect our rights.

This whole debacle is not about our rights to decide who our members are. It's about how we treat those who already ARE members. It's about how much we can call ourselves sisterhoods and how much we should admit we are businesses.

This chapter has been in the state it was in, or should I say the tier it was on, for a long time. Did DZ really think they would be able to blow in and recolonize and have the perfect chapter for the centennial in a year's space of time?? At a school with 2500 students?? If they were really that worried about the chapter being around and healthy for the centennial, they should have done a recolonization and an image overhaul LONG before this.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by Heather17

I am not an expert but one of the things I got out of my higher education law class was that if you don't protect your rights, they can be taken away. Yeah, its true--DZ may suffer in numbers or reputation by pursuing this suit. And as an administrator, I would be hesitant about bringing a group to campus that was known for suing another school.

But I wonder--wouldn't it be worse if we, GLOs, lost the right to decide who our members are? Wouldn't it be worse if we didn't have a right to be autonomous and run our organizations by our own values? (This is also why many orgs are resistant to university efforts for values congruence relationship statements etc.)

We need to protect our rights.

Sorry, not buying that (excuse me) crap. This isn't about "our rights". We are guests on campuses if we want to be recognized by the administration. We have to abide by their rules. I see no unfairness in this whatsoever. While some schools (UA, for instance) would probably take a HUGE hit in applications if they closed the greek system, most probably wouldn't.

This is NOT in any way shape or form about our rights to choose our own members. NO ONE has challenged that right. No one has even challenged the right to dismiss members, or force alumna status upon them. What has been challenged is the actions taken by the HQ of the organization, such as evicting sisters in the middle of the school year, and then not being consistent in statements to the public and to the school/susters. THAT was the final straw that resulted in the eviction of the entire chapter from DePauw. DePauw did NOT say that it was because of the membership review, though they obviously didn't approve of the manner in which that was conducted either (and that's their right, to disapprove).

This isn't about them somehow taking one for the team, for Greeks. They are systematically making themselves AND all of US look bad. They'll dig all the way to the center of the earth and beyond.

[PM_Mama00]

Anyone else think this may help DZ's recruitment next Fall? (or Spring) Girls who are so hooked on image and being a part of the beautiful sorority could be thinking to themselves "Well they kick out the ugly people, so if I can get in that means I'm pretty and hot!". Just thinking on a college freshman/high school perspective. Some girls just don't know about the sisterhood and committment that comes with being in a sorority. Some just want the partying and the boys.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

Sorry, not buying that (excuse me) crap. This isn't about "our rights". We are guests on campuses if we want to be recognized by the administration. We have to abide by their rules. I see no unfairness in this whatsoever. While some schools (UA, for instance) would probably take a HUGE hit in applications if they closed the greek system, most probably wouldn't (I know mine wouldn't).

This is NOT in any way shape or form about our rights to choose our own members. NO ONE has challenged that right. No one has even challenged the right to dismiss members, or force alumna status upon them. What has been challenged is the actions taken by the HQ of the organization, such as evicting sisters in the middle of the school year, and then not being consistent in statements to the public and to the school/susters. THAT was the final straw that resulted in the eviction of the entire chapter from DePauw. DePauw did NOT say that it was because of the membership review, though they obviously didn't approve of the manner in which that was conducted either (and that's their right, to disapprove).

This isn't about them somehow taking one for the team, for Greeks. They are systematically making themselves AND all of US look bad. They'll dig all the way to the center of the earth and beyond.

Thank you for putting into words what I failed to communicate properly!

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

This is NOT in any way shape or form about our rights to choose our own members. NO ONE has challenged that right.

Really? I know this was several pages ago but the reality is people have challenged Delta Zeta on the members they wanted to keep and challenged them on their reported criteria for selecting who would be retained. We're all upset for two reasons--because DZ made those women move out when they did (which, agreed, was heinous) AND because of the reported shallowness of the criteria they used.

I am not making judgments on the merits of their case--I am simply saying that I understand what they are trying to protect and I appreciate that they don't want anyone defaming them over their membership review and membership selection.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

Just because they have that statement on their website does not neccessarily mean it is adhered to everywhere (and that's for everyone, not just DZ chapters).

Agree 100%.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by TSteven

I thought Delta Zeta already made public certain membership policies with respect to discrimination. Most GLOs have their policies "out there" and available to the public. The whole "We do not discriminate based on..."

This might go way above that - as far as things like exactly how they decide to select their members. For example, a girl has a 4.0 so she gets 25 points on their 100 point scale or something. (This is a pulled from my nether regions example and I'm not saying any group does this) This is stepping into ritual territory.

[PenguinTrax]

I find it interesting that the only thing on the DZ web site is information about this debacle. It is like this is their sole reason for existence now. Sad.