The Fix is on!!!

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by pinkies up

The smartest things in the whole post. You're right, Bush doesn't know anything that goes on in this country. So, tell Bush Binladen if he wants to save the people in IRAQ so badly, take his ish and move there. We could use someone interested in DOMESTIC issues. Oh, Bush could take some of Tony Blair's balls and get OUR troops out of Iraq too.

Did you major in some foreign policy related field? Man, closing up shop in Iraq would do wonders for that region, huh. Domestic issues, like the booming economy? Things like that? Oh right, we only attribute things to Bush if they're negative.

I love how in a few short years, the "save everybody" left has suddenly become isolationist. I predict we'd pull out of Iraq, elect a new (GOP) president, and suddenly the left would be wondering why we're not helping people in Africa. So lets say we send some troops there for humanitarian efforts, but given the region some of those troops aren't appreciated. A few get killed, and all the sudden liberals are bitching and crying about it.

We could win the war in Iraq next week if people in this country had the stomach for it, but they don't. Everything is a noble cause until it costs us or some other country something. If the left wants to be isolationists, hell yes, lets do it. I've got a pretty strong feeling that the shelf life on that would be pretty short, however.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I love how in a few short years, the "save everybody" left has suddenly become isolationist. I predict we'd pull out of Iraq, elect a new (GOP) president, and suddenly the left would be wondering why we're not helping people in Africa. So lets say we send some troops there for humanitarian efforts, but given the region some of those troops aren't appreciated. A few get killed, and all the sudden liberals are bitching and crying about it.
.

Not to hijack the convo, but isn't this the attitude of Americans in general - regardless if you're a liberal / conservative / independant?? I don't think you can totally put this off of Democrats (or liberals) since Republicans/conservatives (which I am ashamed to say) are guilty of the same thing.

On paper or in principle, some things do seem to be the right thing to do - shoot, even deep down inside, we KNOW its the right thing to do. But when it get's personal or "too close to home" then people start crawfishing or as you say crying about it. Anything is usually a good idea until you're personally affected.

Shoot, the history of the US is built on this attitude so its definitely not mutually exclusive to Dems/liberals. Its the American way, IMO.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

Not to hijack the convo, but isn't this the attitude of Americans in general - regardless if you're a liberal / conservative / independant?? I don't think you can totally put this off of Democrats (or liberals) since Republicans/conservatives (which I am ashamed to say) are guilty of the same thing.

On paper or in principle, some things do seem to be the right thing to do - shoot, even deep down inside, we KNOW its the right thing to do. But when it get's personal or "too close to home" then people start crawfishing or as you say crying about it. Anything is usually a good idea until you're personally affected.

Shoot, the history of the US is built on this attitude so its definitely not mutually exclusive to Dems/liberals. Its the American way, IMO.

I think you're right to a large degree, actually. Two points...

First, I think there is a discrepancy, as seen in congressional support. I think the same can be said for the general public, be it on a different scale. Lets say that 30 percent of citizens are strongly democratic, 30 percent are strongly GOP, and the other 40 is somewhere in the middle (not accurate, just for discussion). Of that 40, probably 15-20 are loosely partisan. So yeah, I think when times get tough, those weak conservatives are going to flip to the other side. When I refer to Republicans or Democrats, I'm generally referring to the base. So yes, Republicans shift too, they get uneasy, but the base generally wants to see the decision through.

Second, I brought up Democrats because they're generally not even close to being isolationists. So me saying that was basically referring to the idea that Democrats would demand us take action on an issue (hypothetically in Africa), and the GOP would act on it....then when things get uncomfortable, the left can rail about it, ignoring that they were a factor leading to action in the first place. Hence we have situations like Iraq (not really what I'm referring to, but somewhat), where Democrats supported the war, but as things grow worse they use the war they originally supported against the GOP.

Overall though, yes, the country doesn't have the stomach for war. I'm not really a hawk, but if we commit to doing something it should be under the condition that we're going to do whatever it takes. This "when the going gets tough, we get out" stuff has been happening since WWII.

On a side note, as a friend of a good many servicemen, I'm not advocating that we be more casual with decisions to expend American lives. I know many liberals act as though they're fighting against the government on behalf of the soldiers, but that really isn't accurate. Of course for the soldiers who think our mission is devoid of value, they are speaking for them, but they don't represent all or probably even the majority of American servicemen.

I thought it was interesting on MSNBC a week or 2 ago, they had a correspondent out at Bragg talking to families. When they cut to the correspondent, she was visibly surprised in reporting that a strong majority of families she'd talked to supported what we were doing. The anchors were also pretty disconcerted when she said that.