2 Black NFL Head Coaches to Superbowl XLI!!!

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Sistermadly

Canada did it first in 2005.

Haha, let's not compare Canadian football to the NFL.

And Delt, you are correct, Art Shell was the first, with the Raiders.

[KSig RC]

An aside:

It's a well-known (and cited) fact that, although the overwhelming majority of players in the NFL are black, fewer coaches are black.

However, the 'breakdown' of coaches, compared to the overall racial breakdown of the nation, is closer/more similar.

Which should be the benchmark? Is there a middle ground? Does the coaching 'pool' more closely mirror the pool of players, or society at large?

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

An aside:

It's a well-known (and cited) fact that, although the overwhelming majority of players in the NFL are black, fewer coaches are black.

However, the 'breakdown' of coaches, compared to the overall racial breakdown of the nation, is closer/more similar.

Which should be the benchmark? Is there a middle ground? Does the coaching 'pool' more closely mirror the pool of players, or society at large?

Good question.

I think the better benchmark is the historical composition of the NFL. The highly specialized, specific skill-set nature of the NFL naturally limits the talent pool. I concur that historically (I don't have the specific stat either) that the majority of NFL players have been non-white. Given that, the 70+ year absence of AfAm head coaches, or even the chances to regularly interview for head coaching spots until recently, makes the "drought" all the more pronounced.

[shinerbock]

So black coaches should comprise 70 percent of the NFL ranks? I might have misread that, but I think thats a pretty ridiculous standard. As we all know, being a good player does not generally translate to being a great coach. A lot of the best coaches are backups who had plenty of time to sit around and analyze the game. Also, its obvious that a lot of players don't possess leadership qualities required of a good coach. This isn't really about race, just in general that simply because people can play doesn't mean they'll be good coaches.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

So black coaches should comprise 70 percent of the NFL ranks? I might have misread that, but I think thats a pretty ridiculous standard. As we all know, being a good player does not generally translate to being a great coach. A lot of the best coaches are backups who had plenty of time to sit around and analyze the game. Also, its obvious that a lot of players don't possess leadership qualities required of a good coach. This isn't really about race, just in general that simply because people can play doesn't mean they'll be good coaches.

You've misread my post. I've never indicated that AfAms should comprise 70 percent of the coaching ranks, so I have no idea where you pulled that.

Nor did I ever suggest a 1-to-1 correlation between talent and ability to coach. What I actually did say was that with the 70+ years of talent imbalance (concurring with Ksig's? point) in the NFL, I find it highly improbable that AfAm numbers in the coaching ranks during the same period, and since, grew so anemically.

Just curious, what is your take on the numbers presented in the professor's analysis (found in the link in my earlier post)?

[shinerbock]

Yeah you're right. I scan things a lot on here. I'll get back to you on the link.

I read through the link. I'm not sure what you wanted me to comment on. I think the statistics mean very little, I'm not sure what point he's trying to make. Most of those coaches coach for decent teams, and the sample is far too small to make any generalizations. If the point is to say black coaches aren't bad, then sure, thats reasonable. I don't think it says much else though.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

Good question.

I think the better benchmark is the historical composition of the NFL. The highly specialized, specific skill-set nature of the NFL naturally limits the talent pool. I concur that historically (I don't have the specific stat either) that the majority of NFL players have been non-white. Given that, the 70+ year absence of AfAm head coaches, or even the chances to regularly interview for head coaching spots until recently, makes the "drought" all the more pronounced.

Just because the Rooney Rule wasn't put into place until a few years ago doesn't mean that black coaches weren't given the oppurtunity to interview for head coaching jobs.

Also, just because a black football player was a superstar doesn't mean he would be a good coach....at all.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Which should be the benchmark? Is there a middle ground? Does the coaching 'pool' more closely mirror the pool of players, or society at large?

No one's advocating a quota system but rather doing away with the existing barriers in hiring and promotion. That doesn't mean there'll be an influx of black coaches. It means there's greater and more equal POTENTIAL.

What's the benchmark for other sports? What does the NBA do? What do baseball and hockey do? The NBA has way more black players than baseball and hockey so does its coaching and managerial positions mirror that? How many black coaches are there in majority white sports like hockey--is that based on it being a majority white sport or the fact that there are more whites (with greater access to opportunities) in society at large?

[Sistermadly]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Haha, let's not compare Canadian football to the NFL.

I wasn't. I was comparing the historical record. Traditionally speaking, African American coaches (and quarterbacks) have found it much easier to get ahead in the CFL than in the NFL.

[shinerbock]

Well, everyone is better in the CFL than they are in the NFL, to be fair.

[Sistermadly]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, everyone is better in the CFL than they are in the NFL, to be fair.

See, I'd rather watch a CFL game over an NFL game anyway. You must really love the game if you're playing in the CFL for no money and next to no notoriety.

[shinerbock]

I can get that from college ball...without Canadians, which is a plus.

[Sistermadly]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I can get that from college ball...without Canadians, which is a plus.

Are you kidding? Most of the players in the CFL are American. In fact, that's how I know when it's football season in Vancouver - suddenly there are way more African American men in town than at any other time of year.

[shinerbock]

Well I assumed that, but its still a Canadian league, so I doubt its devoid of them.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Sistermadly

Are you kidding? Most of the players in the CFL are American. In fact, that's how I know when it's football season in Vancouver - suddenly there are way more African American men in town than at any other time of year.

I know a couple of African American men who went to the CFL after college in the late 90s.