2 Black NFL Head Coaches to Superbowl XLI!!!

[CrimsonTide4]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

http://www.diversityinc.com/public/1163.cfm

I know the author of this article and his wife!

[shinerbock]

We're not ignoring history, but there comes a point, at least in my mind, where things have evened out. I don't think coaches have been hired based on skin color in quite a while, and I think the only reason its taken this long is that past lack of opportunity meant a smaller pool of black coaches. However, I think for the most part things have caught up. I do think the ownership complaint is ridiculous.

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

However, I think for the most part things have caught up. I do think the ownership complaint is ridiculous.

WHy do you say "for the most part" then?

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I still think it is a double standard. If I cheer for a white receiver, because he's white, people are gonna look at me funny.

Well, seeing as how there is not history in this situation that would justify your cheering other than the same justification whites have given for supporting whites just because they are white forever in America, then yeah you should be looked at funny.

-And I can't believe you and your bosom buddy are acting like things are so color blind now. You KNOW the race of the man is considered when thinking about hiring them, whether they are making one statement or another. YOU all are the ones who are being unrealistic when you say or even think (and I'm sure you're forcing yourself to think this way) that those people who look at a group of individuals and have to consider who to hire don't look at the fact the one is black and one is white. Whether they utilize those thoughts to decide to hire or refrain from hiring is what no one knows, but the thoughts are most certainly there, I'm sure, and I would not doubt too seriously that they aren't jumping at the chance to pick the black man over the white one. If they do, then I think there was some internal (meaning within themselves) or external pressure to do so, which is sad.

[DSTKellie]

Well I for one am proud of the fact that there are two black coaches going to the Superbowl.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

WHy do you say "for the most part" then?





Well, seeing as how there is not history in this situation that would justify your cheering other than the same justification whites have given for supporting whites just because they are white forever in America, then yeah you should be looked at funny.

-And I can't believe you and your bosom buddy are acting like things are so color blind now. You KNOW the race of the man is considered when thinking about hiring them, whether they are making one statement or another. YOU all are the ones who are being unrealistic when you say or even think (and I'm sure you're forcing yourself to think this way) that those people who look at a group of individuals and have to consider who to hire don't look at the fact the one is black and one is white. Whether they utilize those thoughts to decide to hire or refrain from hiring is what no one knows, but the thoughts are most certainly there, I'm sure, and I would not doubt too seriously that they aren't jumping at the chance to pick the black man over the white one. If they do, then I think there was some internal (meaning within themselves) or external pressure to do so, which is sad.

I think it has caught up, but I leave my options open considering I don't know everything, and neither do you. I'm not gonna make some broad statement like "Nobody thinks about race anymore" even though I think that statement is likely true. How many good white receivers are there? Modern history shows white receivers don't do very well. Whats the difference in rooting for a white player because he's white, and rooting for a black person because they're black? I'm not talking about being happy for the two coaches, its been made rather clear that nobody has an issue with that. I do however think its ridiculous to root for someone because they're white/black. Thats where the double standard is. The fact is that its appropriate for black people to be proud of their race, but its not for white people. Putting history aside for a second, if I said "I'm proud, as a white person, to have Manning in the Super Bowl" people would think I'm a white supremacist. Now, to a degree I think this pride black people show in such things is appropriate, similar to how Irish and Italians were proud when one of their own made it to a significant post, etc...but siding with one race just because it is your own is something I think we need to get past in this country. Example? Duke rape case.

And Phasad, I don't think race is that big a deal in hiring. I think how you act is the key. Of course Goldman Sachs is going to be reluctant to hire somebody who although intelligent, dresses like a thug. Its not about race, its about how you present yourself. As a law student, firms absolutely eat up the black students who present themselves well.

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Putting history aside for a second, if I said "I'm proud, as a white person, to have Manning in the Super Bowl" people would think I'm a white supremacist.

Putting history aside for a second? You really can't do that because that is the premise for this entire discussion, Shiner. If history was capable of being "put aside" then, of course, it would be no difference between the sense of a need for pride in the black race as black people and that of whites in their race. That, however, isn't the case so hypothetically putting history aside doesn't do anything for the discussion which is not rooted in hypos but in reality.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Now, to a degree I think this pride black people show in such things is appropriate, similar to how Irish and Italians were proud when one of their own made it to a significant post, etc

Well, this IS the basis for how we feel so if you can understand the sentiment for Irish people and Italians, then you should understand ours. Again, I really think you're just making a specific effort NOT to understand where these sentiments come from when any person of a certain age or older and with any amount of knowledge about the world's/American history should and does know why the sentiments and sense of pride come from.

And Shinerbock, your willful reluctance to acknowledge the very REAL existence of consciousness of race in the inner-workings of every facet of this society is part of the problem in this country with working these things out. Every healing program on earth starts off by making their participants actully acknowledge that they have a problem. The society is no different. The changes that HAVE occured to date only occured because there were enough people that first acknowledged that there IS a problem and then undertook methods to fix it.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Phasad1913

Putting history aside for a second? You really can't do that because that is the premise for this entire discussion, Shiner. If history was capable of being "put aside" then, of course, it would be no difference between the sense of a need for pride in the black race as black people and that of whites in their race. That, however, isn't the case so hypothetically putting history aside doesn't do anything for the discussion which is not rooted in hypos but in reality.



Well, this IS the basis for how we feel so if you can understand the sentiment for Irish people and Italians, then you should understand ours. Again, I really think you're just making a specific effort NOT to understand where these sentiments come from when any person of a certain age or older and with any amount of knowledge about the world's/American history should and does know why the sentiments and sense of pride come from.

And Shinerbock, your willful reluctance to acknowledge the very REAL existence of consciousness of race in the inner-workings of every facet of this society is part of the problem in this country with working these things out. Every healing program on earth starts off by making their participants actully acknowledge that they have a problem. The society is no different. The changes that HAVE occured to date only occured because there were enough people that first acknowledged that there IS a problem and then undertook methods to fix it.

What a ridiculous response. I'm trying really hard to not understand you? Come on. History is irrelevant when you're talking about going for someone just because of their race isn't it? So because people discriminated against black people, its normal for black people to root for blacks over whites? Do I have pride that my family is Irish? Sure I suppose. Would I automatically side with people of Irish heritage simply because of that? Of course not. This is of course ignoring that that is a specific and rather small country, not an entire race of people.

I agree that race is a big deal in society, but not in the way you say it is. Everyone is prejudiced to a degree, I understand that. Do I think black people are discriminated against on a daily basis? Sure. How about for whites? Same answer. Please tell me how the current state of the NFL compares to the plight of previous generations of black people in this country. Please, explain to me what exactly you think is wrong. Show me where black coaches have recently been discriminated against. What is it you want to accomplish?

[Phasad1913]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

What a ridiculous response.

I'm not reading any further. It's my response. Take it or leave it. I could care less if you happen to think its rediculous. Hopefully someone else will benefit from my opinion and imput. I'm looking forward to the game. Being from Chicago, I'll be rooting for the Bears. Have a good one all.

[FeeFee]

Originally Posted by CrimsonTide4

I know the author of this article and his wife!

I know them too!

[TonyB06]

http://www.findjustice.com/nfl/indextext.html
"Black Coaches in the National Football League"

This report led to the creation of the NFL's current policy of inclusion of minority candidates in the interviewing processes of NFL clubs.

For the record, Frederick Douglass "Fritz" Pollard was named a head coach in 1921 in the APFA, which became the NFL a year later. Art Shell was the first African American head coach in the NFL's modern era (1989).

Both men are brothers of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

For the record, Frederick Douglass "Fritz" Pollard was named a head coach in 1921 in the APFA, which became the NFL a year later. Art Shell was the first African American head coach in the NFL's modern era (1989).

Thanks for the clarification, which will lead shortsighted people to say "see, I told you people that there's no exclusion of black coaches."

Originally Posted by TonyB06

Both men are brothers of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc.

Is it possible that the Frederick Douglass that the Alphas list as an honorary is really "Fritz" Pollard? Just kidding.