What do people think about ethnic GLOs

[L.O.C.K.]

The reason minority Greeks were created in the first place was because of racist laws that we're taken out until the 1960's by most organizations and still provide the backdrop for our current setting.

What do NIC/NPC orgs do *specifically* to benefit the Black/Latino/Asian communities? I don't see the organizations as a whole maintaining a committment to communities of color.

Studies have bee done on this. The results show that ethnicity is something one can't really be open about in many (not all) NPC/NIC chapters.

Every organization was founded on certain values/beliefs. You're not going to see minority Greek organization membership go down until you see increased racial integration across NIC/NPC orgs as a whole (which is a LONG way off) and true equality for all people in this country. That's the reality.

If those guys want to start a chapter of whatever fraternity it is, let them. Minority Greeks focus on specific communities. If NPC/NIC organizations aren't helping those communities, then don't complain when people join those organizations.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

The reason minority Greeks were created in the first place was because of racist laws that we're taken out until the 1960's by most organizations and still provide the backdrop for our current setting.

1980s? Most were gone by the mid 70s.

What do NIC/NPC orgs do *specifically* to benefit the Black/Latino/Asian communities? I don't see the organizations as a whole maintaining a committment to communities of color.

They do make a committment to better the community as a whole, however.

Studies have bee done on this. The results show that ethnicity is something one can't really be open about in many (not all) NPC/NIC chapters.

But you can't necessarily be open about them in "ethnic" GLOs either, unless it is very ethnic specific. Say ABC, an Asian GLO is predominantly Japanese. You are say, Korean. The Japanese members may or may not be open to your culture 100% of the time.

Every organization was founded on certain values/beliefs. You're not going to see minority Greek organization membership go down until you see increased racial integration across NIC/NPC orgs as a whole (which is a LONG way off) and true equality for all people in this country. That's the reality.

True

If those guys want to start a chapter of whatever fraternity it is, let them. Minority Greeks focus on specific communities. If NPC/NIC organizations aren't helping those communities, then don't complain when people join those organizations.

But for schools who have made an effort to have more minority members in NIC/NPC groups, some worry that membership will drop once more minority GLOs come on board.

[mccoyred]

As long as there are people of color, there will always be a need for organizations that focus specifically on these communities. Same with women, Americans, disabled, etc.

[L.O.C.K.]

The post says 1960's.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

The post says 1960's.

Thank You, I wondered if I miss read. I didn't think so.

Individuals will go, join, or start a group where they feel comfortable period.

Also, times of historical nature have changed over the years.?

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

The post says 1960's.

Oops.

But anyway, L.O.C.K., outside of NPHC groups, "ethnic" GLOs tend to be a post WWII thing. Many were founded in the last 20 years. Personally, I find it surprising that many Asians are joining these new organizations, because in my experience, Asians (especially Chinese) like tradition. A local girls' private school established in the early 90s is having trouble recruiting Asian students because the parents (as I mentioned in a much earlier post) are opting for century-old prep schools. I have an aunt who influenced my cousin (her son) to go to a 160 year old, very established school rather than a newer one, established in the 60s.

Do you think this is a form of rebellion?

[SOPi_Jawbreaker]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Oops.

But anyway, L.O.C.K., outside of NPHC groups, "ethnic" GLOs tend to be a post WWII thing. Many were founded in the last 20 years. Personally, I find it surprising that many Asians are joining these new organizations, because in my experience, Asians (especially Chinese) like tradition. A local girls' private school established in the early 90s is having trouble recruiting Asian students because the parents (as I mentioned in a much earlier post) are opting for century-old prep schools. I have an aunt who influenced my cousin (her son) to go to a 160 year old, very established school rather than a newer one, established in the 60s.

Do you think this is a form of rebellion?

I don't really know much about the whole Asian parents wanting tradition and rebelling against that (my parents sent me to public school ). But I did want to add another reason onto what L.O.C.K. had said (and you yourself even sort of referenced it by saying "They do make a committment to better the community as a whole, however"). A lot of the Asian Greeks I know (and I would imagine this would probably also apply to Latino/a and African-American GLO's) joined their orgs because it afforded them opportunities to become more involved in the Asian-American community on their campus and/or the Asian-American community in general. It's kinda like joining the Asian-American Students Association or the Chinese Students Association when there exists an Undergraduate Student Association. The Undergraduate Student Association, like NPC/NIC GLO's, may not be the right fit for someone who wants to be part of something that has a particular cultural focus and works on issues specific to that culture. I don't see ethnic GLO's becoming obsolete with more cross-cultural/multi-cultural interaction and mixing. Instead, I think the future holds more intermingling in orgs. Just like how there's more minorities in NPC/NIC orgs and how there's black students (of African-American and Carribean heritage) joining Latino/a GLO's, I think in the future there will be more non-Asian students joining Asian GLO's because they have an interest in the culture and in the political issues and because they feel a fit. And I think there will continue to be more minorities joining NPC/NIC orgs, and I don't think that will make any type of GLO obsolete because they offer different things.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by SOPi_Jawbreaker

I don't really know much about the whole Asian parents wanting tradition and rebelling against that (my parents sent me to public school ). But I did want to add another reason onto what L.O.C.K. had said (and you yourself even sort of referenced it by saying "They do make a committment to better the community as a whole, however"). A lot of the Asian Greeks I know (and I would imagine this would probably also apply to Latino/a and African-American GLO's) joined their orgs because it afforded them opportunities to become more involved in the Asian-American community on their campus and/or the Asian-American community in general. It's kinda like joining the Asian-American Students Association or the Chinese Students Association when there exists an Undergraduate Student Association. The Undergraduate Student Association, like NPC/NIC GLO's, may not be the right fit for someone who wants to be part of something that has a particular cultural focus and works on issues specific to that culture. I don't see ethnic GLO's becoming obsolete with more cross-cultural/multi-cultural interaction and mixing. Instead, I think the future holds more intermingling in orgs. Just like how there's more minorities in NPC/NIC orgs and how there's black students (of African-American and Carribean heritage) joining Latino/a GLO's, I think in the future there will be more non-Asian students joining Asian GLO's because they have an interest in the culture and in the political issues and because they feel a fit. And I think there will continue to be more minorities joining NPC/NIC orgs, and I don't think that will make any type of GLO obsolete because they offer different things.

But the Asian communities are so vast and diverse that it would be impossible to learn about them as a whole and help them. African-Americans have a common history and culture (though things are now changing, with immigrants from various African countries), Asians do not.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

1980s? Most were gone by the mid 70s.




They do make a committment to better the community as a whole, however.



But you can't necessarily be open about them in "ethnic" GLOs either, unless it is very ethnic specific. Say ABC, an Asian GLO is predominantly Japanese. You are say, Korean. The Japanese members may or may not be open to your culture 100% of the time.



True



But for schools who have made an effort to have more minority members in NIC/NPC groups, some worry that membership will drop once more minority GLOs come on board.

I agree. I think especially if organizations from the NPHC come on board, African American interest could decline from IFC/NPC groups.

Originally Posted by Taualumna

But you can't necessarily be open about them in "ethnic" GLOs either, unless it is very ethnic specific. Say ABC, an Asian GLO is predominantly Japanese. You are say, Korean. The Japanese members may or may not be open to your culture 100% of the time.

I'm sorry, I have to call BS on this.

Okay, I know that historically speaking, the Koreans hate the Japanese and vice versa, but I find it hard to believe that college-aged students of Japanese or Korean descent would even hold racial grudges like that. True, there are people who are very sensitive because of historical conflict, but I'm thinking those individuals (if they're even still alive) are my great-grandparents' age, NOT 18-22 year olds in college in American and Canadian GLOs.

Using your example as an example, I doubt that the Japanese members would go apeshit if Soon Yi Pak brought some bulgogi and bee bim bap to the sorority potluck just because their ethnic groups hated each other a century ago.

[cutie_cat_4ever]

Originally Posted by OTW

I'm sorry, I have to call BS on this.

Okay, I know that historically speaking, the Koreans hate the Japanese and vice versa, but I find it hard to believe that college-aged students of Japanese or Korean descent would even hold racial grudges like that. True, there are people who are very sensitive because of historical conflict, but I'm thinking those individuals (if they're even still alive) are my great-grandparents' age, NOT 18-22 year olds in college in American and Canadian GLOs.

Using your example as an example, I doubt that the Japanese members would go apeshit if Soon Yi Pak brought some bulgogi and bee bim bap to the sorority potluck just because their ethnic groups hated each other a century ago.

This is just my experience hanging out with international students so don't grill me on this

It depends on whether the person is brought up in the states or not. For american borns, that generally doesn't happen, so you're right on that. HOWEVER, if they are international student, then it's a different story. In my school, I always see the Japanese and Korean students never get along well. It's a culture thing back in Asia that one group always tends to think they are "cooler" than the other. Especially most of the trends in east asia are either set by Japan or S. Korea nowadays. So it becomes more like a competition between these groups, and I've heard my Japanese friends talked about it. It's more like a pride thing going on. I think that's the kind of racial grudge that Tau is talking about.

But as I said, this generally doesn't apply to american borns.

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

This is just my experience hanging out with international students so don't grill me on this

It depends on whether the person is brought up in the states or not. For american borns, that generally doesn't happen, so you're right on that. HOWEVER, if they are international student, then it's a different story. In my school, I always see the Japanese and Korean students never get along well. It's a culture thing back in Asia that one group always tends to think they are "cooler" than the other. Especially most of the trends in east asia are either set by Japan or S. Korea nowadays. So it becomes more like a competition between these groups, and I've heard my Japanese friends talked about it. It's more like a pride thing going on. I think that's the kind of racial grudge that Tau is talking about.

But as I said, this generally doesn't apply to american borns.

I should have specified that I was talking about American born students in a GLO - kind of sense. I am aware that competition exists within those groups, just not so much (if any) in Asian-interest fraternities and sororities.

Most of the international students I knew in college didn't bother joining Greek organizations because it was a totally foreign concept to them. Except for Dieke from Nigeria/Kenya/I can't remember what African country -- he went TKE.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by OTW

I should have specified that I was talking about American born students in a GLO - kind of sense. I am aware that competition exists within those groups, just not so much (if any) in Asian-interest fraternities and sororities.

Most of the international students I knew in college didn't bother joining Greek organizations because it was a totally foreign concept to them. Except for Dieke from Nigeria/Kenya/I can't remember what African country -- he went TKE.

Dieke shoulda gone DKE.

[Chris Muier]

Originally Posted by cutie_cat_4ever

This is just my experience hanging out with international students so don't grill me on this

It depends on whether the person is brought up in the states or not. For american borns, that generally doesn't happen, so you're right on that. HOWEVER, if they are international student, then it's a different story. In my school, I always see the Japanese and Korean students never get along well. It's a culture thing back in Asia that one group always tends to think they are "cooler" than the other. Especially most of the trends in east asia are either set by Japan or S. Korea nowadays. So it becomes more like a competition between these groups, and I've heard my Japanese friends talked about it. It's more like a pride thing going on. I think that's the kind of racial grudge that Tau is talking about.

But as I said, this generally doesn't apply to american borns.

Very insightful post, cutiecat

[L.O.C.K.]

In response to your question about people with Chinese roots...

...You can still enjoy/respect/practice tradition and join Asian American Greek organizations. I really don't see how they conflict. Sure, NPC/NIC orgs are almost always older, but that doesn't mean they fit the individual.

The reality is from 1926-1980 (I am not including Rho Psi because after its first few chapters it didn't really sustain collegiate membership and today isn't a fraternity any more), 12 organizations with APIA focus were created having 13 total chapters. From 1980 to the present date, over 50 organizations have been established, with over 415 chapters having been established. That's an INSANE growth rate. Yes, you can point to immigration...but then the question is, why are predominantly SECOND generation Asian American youth joining/STARTING these organizations? What is it about the system that they saw that they didn't like or felt didn't fit their needs?

Clearly, if they prefered the status quo, you wouldn't have this immense growth that is visible over the past 25 years (primarily over the last 15 though). You wouldn't have kids saying "I like the idea of the fraternal system, but it doesn't meet my needs as an Asian American or provide a place where Asian culture and values can be focused on" or some semblance there of.

The numbers don't lie. There is a need, and there will continue to be a need as long as a) NPC/NIC orgs maintain their cultural "neutrality" and b) as long as there are differences in the way people are treated/perceived based on their race/ethnicity.

Additionally, due to the high increase of the minority populations in this country, I think NPC/NIC organizations are going to take a serious hit(or maybe just become more codensed...who knows it's only a guess) if they don't stop the "we care about all cultures" crap that is preached but in reality is rarely followed through upon.

If NPC/NIC organizations, as National entities (NOT chapters because I know of chapters that are aware), don't educate their members about cultural issues and really develop cultural understanding, it's going to further the divisions. On the same note, if NPHC, NALFO, Asian Greeks don't do the same thing, it will ALSO increase divisions.

The reality is, that as historically white organizations who have memberships that are predominantly white, they have more social capital than minorities just by being white. The same goes for men over women, straight over gay, protestant over everything else, etc. We live in a country (like all countries) that has a power structure. The rules of the game and how the power is distributed favor straight W.A.S.P. men above anyone else. Therefore, because of this, organizations that don't cater to straight W.A.S.P. men are going to exist in order to help balance that power and provide opportunities for advancement where the society as a whole does not do it as well.

Sorry for the long winded reply. It's kind of theoretical, but I can explain further if anyone cares or wants me to.