Getting a Bid from Someone You Didn't Pref

[aggieAXO]

When I went through rush we could only "regret with interest"-which was annoying b/c if you wanted to cut one of the smaller chapters you really couldn't-their names would always show up on your list the next day and again you would have to pick "regret with interest." This did not help out the smaller chapters at all.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

When I went through rush we could only "regret with interest"-which was annoying b/c if you wanted to cut one of the smaller chapters you really couldn't-their names would always show up on your list the next day and again you would have to pick "regret with interest." This did not help out the smaller chapters at all.

So you all couldn't cut groups at all? Did you all just rank houses and go back to all of them for the next round?

Or are you saying that if you didn't get the max number of invites back from your top picks, the "regret with interest" houses would show up again to fill in the rest of your parties when you really would have preferred not to go to a party than to go back to them?

Edit: or a third option came to me: you mean it was annoying to put down regret with interest on your rankings each round for the houses you weren't going back to? Simply writing it was annoying?

For the folks who know where they want to go and are actually going to be on the first bid list, I think showing up as guests at other houses and being nice and interested (or seeming to like houses that you want to cut) ultimately helps the PR of the house you end up in. Other girls will kind of say, "ah, Aggie, went AXO; she's a super girl; how awesome for them." And for everybody else, who might be in suspense about where they will end up, it keeps more options open.

But no one should get a bid from a house that they didn't pref and list on the bid card. That goes way beyond keeping options open.

[Drolefille]

Regretting with interest means that you want to go there, but can't fit them in. If you can't actually cut and can only RWI then when you get cut by the larger houses, you'll keep getting invited back to the smaller ones, and then keep RWI-ing them. So annoying on the PNM's side because she keeps going to houses that she isn't so interested in and RWI's them each time. Annoying for the small houses that have full parties but may not take quota because those women all want to go somewhere else.

[UGAalum94]

Well, it seems to me that the small houses are probably better off having full houses for the parties than having empty ones. In my mind, they aren't more likely to make quota with fewer girls at each party; they'd be even less likely to make it. So, it may not be a big hardship for them to have girls who aren't crazy about being there at a few parties.

From the PNM's perspective, you might have to go to a few houses you aren't interested in, but how big a deal is that really? You meet some girls; you dazzle them with your charm; they know your future chapter got a great girl on bid day. At least, that's how it goes at UGA, in my opinion.

Yes, occasionally smaller chapters do believe that some girls who aren't really interested want to join them because the PNMs are such awesome guests and treat each rusher like she is the most interesting and charming person on the planet. But it's usually pretty clear by prefs who you will really see on bid day.

If a PNM's only option in declining is to regret with interest, I can see that you couldn't use it to determine if people were interested. If I'm remembering this correctly, back when I was in school and we were huddled around checking our party lists by firelight in the cave, you could straight up decline/regret, decline with interest, or accept.

When I asked about re-invites, I had in mind a system that allowed a PNM to make a distinction between a group she liked okay but wasn't in her top group for second round and a group she never wanted to see again.

With groups making their big releases maybe between different rounds, I can see that a girl who got invited back almost every place after first, but cut hard after second, might not mind having a full party schedule for third. But I can see from the very detailed answer why that doesn't work out in the long term. (Thanks again, TXgirl!)

[Drolefille]

My school had 5 chapters, none of which I would consider small vs. big though there was a range. PNMs there don't cut, they rank.

From the small chapters perspective it's hard to get a feel for how your return rates are (and how you'll do for quota) if you're getting predominantly PNMs who were dropped by other chapters. I don't know that there's really any way to solve that problem though.

As for the PNM's perspective, that's why it's an annoyance. It's not a big deal, but it's still annoying to list XYZ as a regret, yet still go see them every night.

Ideally, it might make a PNM reconsider the smaller houses, but if they still have their top three, they're probably not looking at their bottom two as viable options.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Ideally, it might make a PNM reconsider the smaller houses, but if they still have their top three, they're probably not looking at their bottom two as viable options.

This is true no matter the size of the system, I'm afraid, and it's why it's so hard to have everyone make quota. I think that the release figures, quota additions, and everything else that NPC is doing are wonderful tools to improve the system and are helping a lot. At a few places, results are looking as close to perfect as possible. (I'm thinking Auburn and Alabama, who release data to the public.)

At my school there were 18 groups and the number of parties dropped gradually over four rounds. Girls who were invited back to more than the number of parties could drop groups. I think that the maximum number for second round was 10 or 12. I can imagine that, as far as the PNM was concerned after first round, there might not have been a bid difference between her 12th and 13th house, but the 13th one got dropped.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Well, it seems to me that the small houses are probably better off having full houses for the parties than having empty ones. In my mind, they aren't more likely to make quota with fewer girls at each party; they'd be even less likely to make it. So, it may not be a big hardship for them to have girls who aren't crazy about being there at a few parties.

On one hand, maybe someone will show up who hadn't considered your sorority and be won over. But on the other hand, maybe the majority of the people at the party will be people who'd just as soon be there as have root canal, and aren't shy about showing it. You as a member of that sorority who's already stressed about being smaller, have to keep talking OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN to someone you know doesn't want to be there and doesn't like you. It's very draining for the sorority members. Think about in everyday life how annoying it is to put up w/ someone at your job who you know doesn't like you. Now transfer that to rush which is about 10,000 times more stressful.

And while I think do think it's good to "keep trying," I wouldn't want someone who feels so negatively about my sorority at pref. That's supposed to be a special evening and I'd hate to have a bunch of girls with bad vibes ruining things for the rushees who DO want to be there.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

On one hand, maybe someone will show up who hadn't considered your sorority and be won over. But on the other hand, maybe the majority of the people at the party will be people who'd just as soon be there as have root canal, and aren't shy about showing it. You as a member of that sorority who's already stressed about being smaller, have to keep talking OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN to someone you know doesn't want to be there and doesn't like you. It's very draining for the sorority members. Think about in everyday life how annoying it is to put up w/ someone at your job who you know doesn't like you. Now transfer that to rush which is about 10,000 times more stressful.

And while I think do think it's good to "keep trying," I wouldn't want someone who feels so negatively about my sorority at pref. That's supposed to be a special evening and I'd hate to have a bunch of girls with bad vibes ruining things for the rushees who DO want to be there.

I just like pref can be the night that seals the deal, it can also break it. So those PNMs that loved you and have a crappy pref end up looking elsewhere.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by 33girl

On one hand, maybe someone will show up who hadn't considered your sorority and be won over. But on the other hand, maybe the majority of the people at the party will be people who'd just as soon be there as have root canal, and aren't shy about showing it. You as a member of that sorority who's already stressed about being smaller, have to keep talking OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN to someone you know doesn't want to be there and doesn't like you. It's very draining for the sorority members. Think about in everyday life how annoying it is to put up w/ someone at your job who you know doesn't like you. Now transfer that to rush which is about 10,000 times more stressful.

And while I think do think it's good to "keep trying," I wouldn't want someone who feels so negatively about my sorority at pref. That's supposed to be a special evening and I'd hate to have a bunch of girls with bad vibes ruining things for the rushees who DO want to be there.

OH NO, you don't invite jerks to prefs. (I don't think that qualifies as secret membership selection.) Root canal girl would be long gone. I agree that PNMs who project bad attitude are not helpful to anyone during rush.

Maybe it's a southern thing, but that's not how it goes down for most PNMs in the rushes I've heard about. This may be hard to believe, but almost all PNMs behave beautifully at all the parties. That's why it stands out so much when someone doesn't.

Almost every one of the 1200 PNMS has been raised to always be polite. The idea that one would openly seem disinterested in a conversation or openly show that you didn't like someone to her face would be unthinkable. (which is not to say that everyone acts the same way waiting to go into parties or that people aren't catty behind people's backs.) But at parties themselves, everything is super nice.

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Well, it seems to me that the small houses are probably better off having full houses for the parties than having empty ones. In my mind, they aren't more likely to make quota with fewer girls at each party; they'd be even less likely to make it. So, it may not be a big hardship for them to have girls who aren't crazy about being there at a few parties.

From the PNM's perspective, you might have to go to a few houses you aren't interested in, but how big a deal is that really? You meet some girls; you dazzle them with your charm; they know your future chapter got a great girl on bid day. At least, that's how it goes at UGA, in my opinion.

Yes, occasionally smaller chapters do believe that some girls who aren't really interested want to join them because the PNMs are such awesome guests and treat each rusher like she is the most interesting and charming person on the planet. But it's usually pretty clear by prefs who you will really see on bid day.

If a PNM's only option in declining is to regret with interest, I can see that you couldn't use it to determine if people were interested. If I'm remembering this correctly, back when I was in school and we were huddled around checking our party lists by firelight in the cave, you could straight up decline/regret, decline with interest, or accept.

When I asked about re-invites, I had in mind a system that allowed a PNM to make a distinction between a group she liked okay but wasn't in her top group for second round and a group she never wanted to see again.

With groups making their big releases maybe between different rounds, I can see that a girl who got invited back almost every place after first, but cut hard after second, might not mind having a full party schedule for third. But I can see from the very detailed answer why that doesn't work out in the long term. (Thanks again, TXgirl!)

Again, I did not go to these houses after the second day because I had full parties but it did not matter-their name showed up every morning on the list regardless.

ETA: I was NEVER rude to the girls in these chapters. One of my best friends was in one of the smaller chapters and I had been over to house many times the previous year (I rushed as a junior.) I knew all the struggles her chapter had been through and I knew that it was not for me. She was a rho chi the year I rushed and every morning she would greet me at the MSC where we got our lists and every morning she watched as I cut her chapter which I know had to make her sad-that is why it was annoying.

[UGAalum94]

That makes sense. I was thinking of campuses that gave PNMs the choice between regret and regret with interest.

You obviously weren't interested. I guess at your campus there's no way for the groups to really tell.

[carnation]

-wondering if anybody else had heard of this happening over the last 2 years-

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

Again, I did not go to these houses after the second day because I had full parties but it did not matter-their name showed up every morning on the list regardless.

ETA: I was NEVER rude to the girls in these chapters. One of my best friends was in one of the smaller chapters and I had been over to house many times the previous year (I rushed as a junior.) I knew all the struggles her chapter had been through and I knew that it was not for me. She was a rho chi the year I rushed and every morning she would greet me at the MSC where we got our lists and every morning she watched as I cut her chapter which I know had to make her sad-that is why it was annoying.

This happened to me as a PNM as well. Exact same situation except that I wasn't friends with the RC whose chapter I was cutting, though I did know it was her chapter. It was uncomfortable every time.

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Regretting with interest means that you want to go there, but can't fit them in. If you can't actually cut and can only RWI then when you get cut by the larger houses, you'll keep getting invited back to the smaller ones, and then keep RWI-ing them. So annoying on the PNM's side because she keeps going to houses that she isn't so interested in and RWI's them each time. Annoying for the small houses that have full parties but may not take quota because those women all want to go somewhere else.

The first 2 days I did not have full parties and could not cut the houses but the rest of week I had full parties and even though I would cut these houses they still showed up on the list the next day (for me again to RWI). I did cut one of the larger houses on campus mid week as well and they did not show up on my list the next day. It made the smaller houses look desperate and did not help with their image.