Three Hospitalized (Alcohol) at U of Central Florida

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by macallan25

You can talk about the law all you want.....you aren't proving anything. You obviously have little knowledge of how things work outside of UCF. If you understood how things do actually happen.....then you wouldn't sit here trying to make some pointless argument of the legality of hazing.

What does it matter how prestigious Southern fraternities haze their new members when the thread in question is about UCF and a UCF student is commenting on a UCF situation. Fact: The SAE chapter at UCF was a strong UCF chapter. Fact: SAE at UCF has been de-recognized. Fact: In the past, UCF fraternities have gotten in trouble for hazing. Fact: There is a law in Florida that prohibits hazing. Whether that law is clear as day or vague to the general public is irrelevant-- the legal system exists to draft confusion and vague legislation that keeps lawyers and judges employed. Fact: If hazing is against the law in a state, a collegiate men's organization is not above the law to haze their members no matter how "safely" they perceive the hazing.

Clearly, SAE HQ does not condone these behaviors or the chapter would not be closing. That is also a fact.

So while the good chapters not at UCF must haze the bejesus out of their men to make them true SAEs, that is neither here nor there. This is a thread about UCF SAE, and not other schools Greek Systems, or how they haze.

And I realize that JessXIca is new to the Greek System, but she is also a UCF upperclassman who has been involved with the Greek System prior to joining Alpha Xi through UCF activities. It's a big school, but it's still a small community. I don't think anyone needs sorority tenure to comment on situations occuring at her university.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

What does it matter how prestigious Southern fraternities haze their new members when the thread in question is about UCF and a UCF student is commenting on a UCF situation. Fact: The SAE chapter at UCF was a strong UCF chapter. Fact: SAE at UCF has been de-recognized. Fact: In the past, UCF fraternities have gotten in trouble for hazing. Fact: There is a law in Florida that prohibits hazing. Whether that law is clear as day or vague to the general public is irrelevant-- the legal system exists to draft confusion and vague legislation that keeps lawyers and judges employed. Fact: If hazing is against the law in a state, a collegiate men's organization is not above the law to haze their members no matter how "safely" they perceive the hazing.

Clearly, SAE HQ does not condone these behaviors or the chapter would not be closing. That is also a fact.

So while the good chapters not at UCF must haze the bejesus out of their men to make them true SAEs, that is neither here nor there. This is a thread about UCF SAE, and not other schools Greek Systems, or how they haze.

And I realize that JessXIca is new to the Greek System, but she is also a UCF upperclassman who has been involved with the Greek System prior to joining Alpha Xi through UCF activities. It's a big school, but it's still a small community. I don't think anyone needs sorority tenure to comment on situations occuring at her university.

1.) I can assure you plenty of chapters can side step the law.

2.) Again, you are speaking of hazing like it is some horrible, God awful action. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by macallan25

1.) I can assure you plenty of chapters can side step the law.

That doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by macallan25

2.) Again, you are speaking of hazing like it is some horrible, God awful action. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject.

Hazing is illegal. There are other methods to go about establishing brotherhood bonds-- most things that you consider safe-hazing need only minor modification to follow your own fraternity's policies. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject believing that you are above the law, as well as the policies your own brothers have voted into being. But again, I suppose that is neither here nor there, because you believe you and the offending prestigious chapters are above such policies.

[RU OX Alum]

i think the problem with most discussions on "hazing" is that you all refuse to agree on a working definition, which renders everything posted invalid

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

i think the problem with most discussions on "hazing" is that you all refuse to agree on a working definition, which renders everything posted invalid

You are correct, Sir!
Something that Brother Mac and I figured out in another thread somewhere here in RM

Part, and only part, of the problem is that laws, policies, Acts, POV's et al are themselves so broad and wide.

As are the actions and thoughts of the people they are aimed at.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

That doesn't make it right.


Hazing is illegal. There are other methods to go about establishing brotherhood bonds-- most things that you consider safe-hazing need only minor modification to follow your own fraternity's policies. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject believing that you are above the law, as well as the policies your own brothers have voted into being. But again, I suppose that is neither here nor there, because you believe you and the offending prestigious chapters are above such policies.

I never said I was above the law at all, nor did I say anything about "policies my own brothers have voted into being" or believing that me and the offending prestigious chapters are above such policies. If you can find where I said any of these things or actually commented on what me and my chapter do during pledgeship....i'd love to see it. However, if you are going to sit there and try to put words in my mouth, then you can keep your comments to yourself. I never made any of my comments from a personal perspective...I made them because they are true.

I actually have a very open mind about what goes on...clearly, you don't. I am well aware that hazing is illegal. I am also well aware that many chapters can get away with quite a high degree of things before they actually get into trouble. If you don't believe this, you are only kidding yourself. Do I think it is right for it to be like that? I don't know.....but its nice to have the ability to get out of some trouble IF it arises. You think Alabama SAE (our founding chapter) is going to get shut down for a minor hazing infraction...or because a kid or two got too drunk? Doubt it.

[fifi225]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

That doesn't make it right.


Hazing is illegal. There are other methods to go about establishing brotherhood bonds-- most things that you consider safe-hazing need only minor modification to follow your own fraternity's policies. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject believing that you are above the law, as well as the policies your own brothers have voted into being. But again, I suppose that is neither here nor there, because you believe you and the offending prestigious chapters are above such policies.

....Can I be you when I grow up? Seriously, you said exactly what I was too fusturated to properly articulate.

And an aside:

I guess I'm too narrowminded to understand why you would want to place someone in harm's way that you claim to care about, or that you want in your bond. I also seem to miss the point of humiliating/degrading someone that you want to join your society.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by fifi225

....Can I be you when I grow up? Seriously, you said exactly what I was too fusturated to properly articulate.

And an aside:

I guess I'm too narrowminded to understand why you would want to place someone in harm's way that you claim to care about, or that you want in your bond. I also seem to miss the point of humiliating/degrading someone that you want to join your society.

Well, it certainly appears you have a narrowminded view of the topic. Oh I forgot, hazing has to be degrading/humiliating/harmful.

[FL-E1973]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Oh I forgot, hazing has to be degrading/humiliating/harmful.

Thank you

[fifi225]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Oh I forgot, hazing has to be degrading/humiliating/harmful.

I stand corrected, I should have made myself more clear. I can understand why an organization would want its potential members to be closer and why they would use activities to cultivate that as well as a respect for the letters they hope to eventually wear.

However (and this is the part I should have made more clear), I was referring to specific catagories of the broad defination of "hazing" (the type that tends to get chapters in trouble). I simply don't understand it.

My apologies for the ambiguity.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by fifi225

I stand corrected, I should have made myself more clear. I can understand why an organization would want its potential members to be closer and why they would use activities to cultivate that as well as a respect for the letters they hope to eventually wear.

However (and this is the part I should have made more clear), I was referring to specific catagories of the broad defination of "hazing" (the type that tends to get chapters in trouble). I simply don't understand it.

My apologies for the ambiguity.

LOL, you do not have to worry, he is always contrary.

He never had a chapter removed from a campus for hazing (?).

Backers of hazing are becoming extinct.