Three Hospitalized (Alcohol) at U of Central Florida

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jessXIca

For Christ's sake, I'm not talking about how what actually happens, I'm talking about the law. Stop going on and on about "old Southern Greeks", those are not the only ones that exist.

You can talk about the law all you want.....you aren't proving anything. You obviously have little knowledge of how things work outside of UCF. If you understood how things do actually happen.....then you wouldn't sit here trying to make some pointless argument of the legality of hazing.

[FL-E1973]

I honestly just can't wait for like two weeks to pass becasue I gauruntee everyone will forget about this. The other thing that bother's me is once something like this happens it's like oh the Greeks are giving UCF a bad name, it's just so easy to be a target. When a GDI dies of alcohol poisoning, or goes to the hospital nobody is like Damn those idiot GDI's are ruining everything. I guess it just comes with the territory. On another note I notice a lot of strife within sororities here on campus. I hear about littles talking bad about their bigs and things of that nature. I think that shows a serious problem with how new members are brought into the Sororities.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by FL-E1973

I honestly just can't wait for like two weeks to pass becasue I gauruntee everyone will forget about this. The other thing that bother's me is once something like this happens it's like oh the Greeks are giving UCF a bad name, it's just so easy to be a target. When a GDI dies of alcohol poisoning, or goes to the hospital nobody is like Damn those idiot GDI's are ruining everything. I guess it just comes with the territory. On another note I notice a lot of strife within sororities here on campus. I hear about littles talking bad about their bigs and things of that nature. I think that shows a serious problem with how new members are brought into the Sororities.

You're right. It will be ancient history in a few weeks. And all women gossip about each other. This isn't a problem exclusive to UCF or sororities. It concerns the entire gender. Not everyone in a sorority LUVS everyone in their sorority all of the time. Yes, sororities shouldn't concern fraternity men with their chapter problems, but I think it is reasonable that a woman should be allowed to vent to her friends, regardless of gender, if someone has upset her and she is trying to figure out the means to cope or deal with that person.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by FL-E1973

When a GDI dies of alcohol poisoning, or goes to the hospital nobody is like Damn those idiot GDI's are ruining everything.

We're not talking apples and apples here.

If an independent were to die due to an event by an organized group, you can bet that it would be a big deal on campus and in the news.

Normally, though, the Library Club probably won't be throwing a keg party -- well, at most schools.

[FL-E1973]

Yeah so when a group of friends holds a keg party I get it. Someone can leave their house and get in a deadly drunk driving accident, and not expect to have reporters walking into their house uninvited etc. That to me is a problem, when a group is being punished on a sole reason of being an organization that is BS especially if noone was harmed. As for HQ those guys had to have done a lot worse stuff than this. They're just trying to be PC, which unfortunatly so is the rest of this country, I think it's time things got real again.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by FL-E1973

Yeah so when a group of friends holds a keg party I get it. Someone can leave their house and get in a deadly drunk driving accident, and not expect to have reporters walking into their house uninvited etc.

I don't think that's true. I think pretty much any media would report where the person got drunk enough to cause the accident -- and depending on the laws of that location, the people who allowed someone to get that drunk could be held accountable.

"The driver had just left a party at..."

It would certainly be true of commercial establishments (bars, restaurants, etc.).

[Tom Earp]

Inspite of what some SAE Members on G C say, it looks like SAE IHQ is starting to hold a no nonsense priority as I read the IHQ Site.

[macallan25]

It's a website Tom......not the be all, end all to everything that SAE does. Stop trying to be some investigative know-it-all douchebag. I am well aware of what our "National Policy" states..........because I know that you are referring to me. Everything I have stated is from my point of view or experience. I am not speaking on behalf of SAE nationals......so quit while you are behind.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Inspite of what some SAE Members on G C say, it looks like SAE IHQ is starting to hold a no nonsense priority as I read the IHQ Site.

Say what??
Tom, I know I have never said anything against my National and I do not recall anyone else doing so.

You may be confusing "IMHO/POV" statements vs policy statements.

And from what I have seen here, been told or read elsewhere, most Nationals will hold same no nonsense policy in matters we have seen here.
And we have not seen everything that is going on; both in these matters as well as many others that are going on out there at many other GLO's.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by macallan25

You can talk about the law all you want.....you aren't proving anything. You obviously have little knowledge of how things work outside of UCF. If you understood how things do actually happen.....then you wouldn't sit here trying to make some pointless argument of the legality of hazing.

What does it matter how prestigious Southern fraternities haze their new members when the thread in question is about UCF and a UCF student is commenting on a UCF situation. Fact: The SAE chapter at UCF was a strong UCF chapter. Fact: SAE at UCF has been de-recognized. Fact: In the past, UCF fraternities have gotten in trouble for hazing. Fact: There is a law in Florida that prohibits hazing. Whether that law is clear as day or vague to the general public is irrelevant-- the legal system exists to draft confusion and vague legislation that keeps lawyers and judges employed. Fact: If hazing is against the law in a state, a collegiate men's organization is not above the law to haze their members no matter how "safely" they perceive the hazing.

Clearly, SAE HQ does not condone these behaviors or the chapter would not be closing. That is also a fact.

So while the good chapters not at UCF must haze the bejesus out of their men to make them true SAEs, that is neither here nor there. This is a thread about UCF SAE, and not other schools Greek Systems, or how they haze.

And I realize that JessXIca is new to the Greek System, but she is also a UCF upperclassman who has been involved with the Greek System prior to joining Alpha Xi through UCF activities. It's a big school, but it's still a small community. I don't think anyone needs sorority tenure to comment on situations occuring at her university.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

What does it matter how prestigious Southern fraternities haze their new members when the thread in question is about UCF and a UCF student is commenting on a UCF situation. Fact: The SAE chapter at UCF was a strong UCF chapter. Fact: SAE at UCF has been de-recognized. Fact: In the past, UCF fraternities have gotten in trouble for hazing. Fact: There is a law in Florida that prohibits hazing. Whether that law is clear as day or vague to the general public is irrelevant-- the legal system exists to draft confusion and vague legislation that keeps lawyers and judges employed. Fact: If hazing is against the law in a state, a collegiate men's organization is not above the law to haze their members no matter how "safely" they perceive the hazing.

Clearly, SAE HQ does not condone these behaviors or the chapter would not be closing. That is also a fact.

So while the good chapters not at UCF must haze the bejesus out of their men to make them true SAEs, that is neither here nor there. This is a thread about UCF SAE, and not other schools Greek Systems, or how they haze.

And I realize that JessXIca is new to the Greek System, but she is also a UCF upperclassman who has been involved with the Greek System prior to joining Alpha Xi through UCF activities. It's a big school, but it's still a small community. I don't think anyone needs sorority tenure to comment on situations occuring at her university.

1.) I can assure you plenty of chapters can side step the law.

2.) Again, you are speaking of hazing like it is some horrible, God awful action. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by macallan25

1.) I can assure you plenty of chapters can side step the law.

That doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by macallan25

2.) Again, you are speaking of hazing like it is some horrible, God awful action. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject.

Hazing is illegal. There are other methods to go about establishing brotherhood bonds-- most things that you consider safe-hazing need only minor modification to follow your own fraternity's policies. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject believing that you are above the law, as well as the policies your own brothers have voted into being. But again, I suppose that is neither here nor there, because you believe you and the offending prestigious chapters are above such policies.

[RU OX Alum]

i think the problem with most discussions on "hazing" is that you all refuse to agree on a working definition, which renders everything posted invalid

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

i think the problem with most discussions on "hazing" is that you all refuse to agree on a working definition, which renders everything posted invalid

You are correct, Sir!
Something that Brother Mac and I figured out in another thread somewhere here in RM

Part, and only part, of the problem is that laws, policies, Acts, POV's et al are themselves so broad and wide.

As are the actions and thoughts of the people they are aimed at.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

That doesn't make it right.


Hazing is illegal. There are other methods to go about establishing brotherhood bonds-- most things that you consider safe-hazing need only minor modification to follow your own fraternity's policies. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject believing that you are above the law, as well as the policies your own brothers have voted into being. But again, I suppose that is neither here nor there, because you believe you and the offending prestigious chapters are above such policies.

I never said I was above the law at all, nor did I say anything about "policies my own brothers have voted into being" or believing that me and the offending prestigious chapters are above such policies. If you can find where I said any of these things or actually commented on what me and my chapter do during pledgeship....i'd love to see it. However, if you are going to sit there and try to put words in my mouth, then you can keep your comments to yourself. I never made any of my comments from a personal perspective...I made them because they are true.

I actually have a very open mind about what goes on...clearly, you don't. I am well aware that hazing is illegal. I am also well aware that many chapters can get away with quite a high degree of things before they actually get into trouble. If you don't believe this, you are only kidding yourself. Do I think it is right for it to be like that? I don't know.....but its nice to have the ability to get out of some trouble IF it arises. You think Alabama SAE (our founding chapter) is going to get shut down for a minor hazing infraction...or because a kid or two got too drunk? Doubt it.