Christian terrorists hijack a plane

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by kddani

Just because there's Christians who are willing to "clarify" things doesn't mean that a) they should; b) they're correct; or c) that they have ANY idea of what they're talking about. It's nice that the Muslim GC members have more sense than that.

It's pretty clear that no one is a spokesperson for the religion or its doctrine.

With that said, there are probably just fewer GC Muslims than there are GC Christians who post regularly. This difference in numbers changes the odds/probability of such questions being answered. It isn't necessarily about "having more sense than that" () because I know at least a couple GC Muslims who do answer such questions on message boards whenever they have time on their hands and/or feel like being bothered with educating people.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Maybe YOU don't understand. I cut and pasted this from another thread for one of the posters who asked about it. I am not pressing Opi, because she has made it clear she will not answer my questions in detail.

Wow - she totally blew you out, my friend.

Opi and I don't exactly get along, but she not only made your "quotations" look idiotic, but addressed all of your concerns completely. Read -> comprehend -> post?

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by blueangel

and, in Qur'an :39 it says, "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." and "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief --non Muslims) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone."

and in Ishaq :587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak and faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violenty before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight unti our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Obviously, you wont pick up a hardcopy of the Quran yourself and you want the easy way out. Alright, let me break it down for you. Your first citation is "Qu'ran 39". This is not the right way to cite a verse from the holy book. You must have the chapter name or number and verse number. Example: Al-Baraqa 50. Al-Baraqa is the chapter name. 50 is the specific verse. Or you can write it like so..surah 2 (which is Al-Baraqa):50. There is no chapter in the Quran named Quran. Therefore the first quote you gave me wasINCORRECT.

Your second citation is "Ishaq:587". There is no chapter called "Ishaq". In fact, the closest sounding chapter is "Al-Ishiqaq". I thought this was a good-faith mistake until I looked at the verse #. 587. The longest chapter in the Quran is Al-Baraqa. It contains 286 verses. Let me repeat this in case you missed it. There is no chapter and no such verse in the Quran.

Now, I ran some searches on google to see where you might have gotten them and here are the top results:

First verse:

An acoustic guitar forum
Prophet of Doom (lol)
JihadWatch

Second verse:

Prophet of Doom
Jihad in Islam (understanding-Islam.com is a Christian website)
FaithFreedom


They cite those verse the same (incorrect) way. I can only assume you went to one of those sites to get your verses. Like I said, you're wasting your time and you have already wasted mine for making me type an essay.


Have a nice day

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by _Opi_

Obviously, you wont pick up a hardcopy of the Quran yourself and you want the easy way out. Alright, let me break it down for you. Your first citation is "Qu'ran 39". This is not the right way to cite a verse from the holy book. You must have the chapter name or number and verse number. Example: Al-Baraqa 50. Al-Baraqa is the chapter name. 50 is the specific verse. Or you can write it like so..surah 2 (which is Al-Baraqa):50. There is no chapter in the Quran named Quran. Therefore the first quote you gave me wasINCORRECT.

Your second citation is "Ishaq:587". There is no chapter called "Ishaq". In fact, the closest sounding chapter is "Al-Ishiqaq". I thought this was a good-faith mistake until I looked at the verse #. 587. The longest chapter in the Quran is Al-Baraqa. It contains 286 verses. Let me repeat this in case you missed it. There is no chapter and no such verse in the Quran.

Now, I ran some searches on google to see where you might have gotten them and here are the top results:

First verse:

An acoustic guitar forum
Prophet of Doom (lol)
JihadWatch

Second verse:

Prophet of Doom
Jihad in Islam (understanding-Islam.com is a Christian website)
FaithFreedom


They cite those verse the same (incorrect) way. I can only assume you went to one of those sites to get your verses. Like I said, you're wasting your time and you have already wasted mine for making me type an essay.


Have a nice day

NICE.

_Opi_ I also found those same references in some Bob Jones University "educational material" that is kept at the theological centre here at UofT...

Oh... as for blueangel's 4% Fundamentalist stat... ummm what percentage of Christians would fall into the same bracket? Or didn't the 'study' mention that...

[blueangel]

Opi:

I'll go into more detail if you wish over the weekend, as I'll have more time for reading and to research your response. (sorry, it's the Astronaut in me that likes to really understand topics in detail)

I do not claim to be an expert on the Islamic faith. In my research, I found more on the quotes I asked you about. As you recall, I mentioned that things can be misinterpreted and taken out of context, which is why I requested your clarification since you say you are Muslim (or, as you recall.. I also asked anyone else to chime in) as you would know more about your faith than I.

As per your response...... you said:

Your first citation is "Qu'ran 39". This is not the right way to cite a verse from the holy book. You must have the chapter name or number and verse number. Example: Al-Baraqa 50. Al-Baraqa is the chapter name. 50 is the specific verse. Or you can write it like so..surah 2 (which is Al-Baraqa):50. There is no chapter in the Quran named Quran. Therefore the first quote you gave me wasINCORRECT.

Thank you for explaining that. So am I to understand that there is no such quote in the Qu'ran? Or do you mean it is just referenced incorrectly? This is why I was holding off on posting.. I am researching this more.

Your second citation is "Ishaq:587". There is no chapter called "Ishaq". In fact, the closest sounding chapter is "Al-Ishiqaq". I thought this was a good-faith mistake until I looked at the verse #. 587. The longest chapter in the Quran is Al-Baraqa. It contains 286 verses. Let me repeat this in case you missed it. There is no chapter and no such verse in the Quran

.

From what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, (as I have explained that I'm still just learning about the Islamic religion, but was alarmed at the quotes I came across)... Ishaq:587 comes from Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah http://onlineislamicstore.com/b3828.html a biography which composes the account of Muhammad's life and the beginnings of the religion. Is that correct, or am I mistaken? I could very well be.

And finally, is it true Mohammed's final words to his disciples were, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

[_Opi_]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Opi:

I'll go into more detail if you wish over the weekend, as I'll have more time for reading and to research your response. (sorry, it's the Astronaut in me that likes to really understand topics in detail)

I'm glad you are going the extra mile for searching for the truth. While you're at it, please make sure they are not from online sources, because it is hard to determine what is correct or not. And do you mind creating another thread "if you really want to talk about it" so we can attempt to redirect the thread to the original topic?

I do not claim to be an expert on the Islamic faith. In my research, I found more on the quotes I asked you about. As you recall, I mentioned that things can be misinterpreted and taken out of context, which is why I requested your clarification since you say you are Muslim (or, as you recall.. I also asked anyone else to chime in) as you would know more about your faith than I.

What does your research consist of? Just curious? Maybe I can help you out if you need further assistance.

Thank you for explaining that. So am I to understand that there is no such quote in the Qu'ran? Or do you mean it is just referenced incorrectly? This is why I was holding off on posting.. I am researching this more.

you're welcome. I'm telling I did not find those quotes in the koran "As per you quotes". Infact, your citing was so far off and copied (exactly) from Islamophobic websites, that I don't want to go any further in verifying because you did not go through the proper channels for your "research".

From what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, (as I have explained that I'm still just learning about the Islamic religion, but was alarmed at the quotes I came across)... Ishaq:587 comes from Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah http://onlineislamicstore.com/b3828.html a biography which composes the account of Muhammad's life and the beginnings of the religion. Is that correct, or am I mistaken? I could very well be.

Oh, so the one verse is not from the Quran? Then I can't help you there. I looked up some information about this Ibn Ishaq character. Turns out he wrote a book about the life of the Prophet about a century after his death. He has a collection of "Hadiths" in the book. The rough definition of Hadiths are the sayings attributed to the Prophet during his life time. All compiled about a century after his death by different collectors (some more popular than others based on the research method they used to compile the sayings). Now, Hadiths are a topic I would rather not get into because it's really really complicated and some are more "trustworthy" than others. The Quran only has one version and is the word of God. The Quran, we believe, is Infallible and the primary source and guidance of the religion. The Hadiths are not infallible. Another important factor to consider: amongst muslim scholars of that time, Ibn Ishaq's work was highly disputed. And if you ask any muslim today who this guy is (unless they went to school for this sort of stuff), they wont know who this guy is, much less his book you just brought up.

Now do you understand why I was reluctant to answer your question.

And finally, is it true Mohammed's final words to his disciples were, "I was ordered to fight all men until they say, "There is no god but Allah."

The only part that's right is "There is no God but Allah [God]."

Like I said, when I googled it, only Islamophobic websites came up and had verbatim what you quoted. So like I said, go to a credible source, and if you find one, post it again. We can go from there.

Now can we get back to the topic?

[kddani]

Originally Posted by blueangel

I believe that is a personal attack. I'm reporting it.

Funny, you personally attacked me earlier in this thread and the post was removed by the moderator.

If you want to crusade in the name of the TOS, then follow it yourself.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by kddani

Funny, you personally attacked me earlier in this thread and the post was removed by the moderator.

If you want to crusade in the name of the TOS, then follow it yourself.

I didn't "attack" you... I merely pointed out the silly diversionary tactics you use. But, then.. when have you ever let the facts get in the way of a good story?

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by blueangel

I'm reporting that as well. Please do not use profanity.

This is detracting from the discussion. I am reporting you for not contributing to the discussion about terrorists who happen to be Muslim.

[shinerbock]

Yeah, but you're straying from terrorism to just general immoral acts. Nobody is molesting children because they are acting out their beliefs. Its a problem sure, but I don't think its directly related to Catholic faith.