Your thoughts on AI: discussion goes here.

[tunatartare]

Tom, I have to ask, why are you so interested in what goes on in the HQ's of other organizations, sororities in particular? Is it that you want to be in one or something? Why do you care about promoting AI into NPC sororities? Mind LXA's business, and make sure that there are no problems within your organization before you start telling other organizations how they should conduct their business.

[Tom Earp]

It is in the eye of the beholder isnt it?

Since when is AI only a Sorority idea?

Granted, there are more Female AIs than Males on Site does not mean that We as Fraternitys do not.

The AI Thread adpiucf is an open forum isnt it? I am not intruding on any forum that is not allowed. No, it should not be a full time job, but from one who was there and seeing what is being done to the current MODs, it sucks and is wrong. Oh, isnt it?

ariesrising, thank you for your input.

SoCalGirl, some good points. But it is not that I said the AIing is something new did I?


33girl, more so than the ones who have who do not deem it to be closed?



Alphagamuga, thank you for a sensible post!

[Taualumna]

But Tom, you aren't answering KLPDaisy's question!

[tunatartare]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

It is in the eye of the beholder isnt it?

Since when is AI only a Sorority idea?

Granted, there are more Female AIs than Males on Site does not mean that We as Fraternitys do not.

Exactly. Let the NPC sororities run AI the way they want to without any input from you, and since you care so much about AI, work with your fraternity on improving/changing your AI policy.

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

SoCalGirl, some good points. But it is not that I said the AIing is something new did I?

You're right, it's not new. So why are we taking a new approach to the handling on GC? We did just fine for many many years with minimal to no info on here. We should continue that, imo.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

But if the other groups don't require the information to be withheld in such a way, aren't you infringing on other people's expression unnecessarily?

I apologize if it seemed that I was asking for your credentials. I was really questioning why you thought it was appropriate to limit others' speech in this way.


If you would like the ADPi policy to be what you described, that's one thing. I assume you know the wishes of your group. But all groups may not share your position.

(Don't you think it would take even more effort from the mods. to do what you described rather than have one forum to keep an eye on?)

We've come to a collective agreement in the course of these discussions that discussing AI is akin to discussing membership selection-- which for all of us is ritual. Across the board, there is no NPC group holding AI as open recruitment. I don't think this makes more effort for the mods. They mod their own forums and delete inappropriate content as it is posted.

AI isn't for people who stumble onto GC and learn about it. It's for the Greek moms, real life sisters and real life friends and charity volunteers who support our organizations and philanthropies, and who are nominated for the honor. AI, in its current form, for most of the NPCs, means we come to YOU and invite you. It's not about poking your head in the door and seeing if anyone is home. It's about being invited to come home.

I used to be an international officer for my sorority. Part of my role involved the support and approval of AI candidates. I thought it would be great to try to more aggressively promote this program to our members and to try to find women in different areas and connect them with alumnae. And you know what? It was like talking to a brick wall. Yes, most of us do AI. But most of us are really resistant to being matched up with a PNAI or are overwhelmed at the idea itself. I can think of two GC'ers who resided in my district that I tried to put in touch with a local alumnae group. The alumnae just weren't interested.

AI isn't recruitment. It doesn't belong in a recruitment forum. And right now, it doesn't need promoting. We've talked about Sorority Shopping... It's like people soliciting a Lifetime Acheivement Award for themselves instead of having the honor conferred upon them.

AI isn't recruitment, isn't the future, and doesn't need a sub-forum.

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

We've come to a collective agreement in the course of these discussions that discussing AI is akin to discussing membership selection-- which for all of us is ritual. Across the board, there is no NPC group holding AI as open recruitment. I don't think this makes more effort for the mods. They mod their own forums and delete inappropriate content as it is posted.

AI isn't for people who stumble onto GC and learn about it. It's for the Greek moms, real life sisters and real life friends and charity volunteers who support our organizations and philanthropies, and who are nominated for the honor. AI, in its current form, for most of the NPCs, means we come to YOU and invite you. It's not about poking your head in the door and seeing if anyone is home. It's about being invited to come home.

I used to be an international officer for my sorority. Part of my role involved the support and approval of AI candidates. I thought it would be great to try to more aggressively promote this program to our members and to try to find women in different areas and connect them with alumnae. And you know what? It was like talking to a brick wall. Yes, most of us do AI. But most of us are really resistant to being matched up with a PNAI or are overwhelmed at the idea itself. I can think of two GC'ers who resided in my district that I tried to put in touch with a local alumnae group. The alumnae just weren't interested.

AI isn't recruitment. It doesn't belong in a recruitment forum. And right now, it doesn't need promoting. We've talked about Sorority Shopping... It's like people soliciting a Lifetime Acheivement Award for themselves instead of having the honor conferred upon them.

AI isn't recruitment, isn't the future, and doesn't need a sub-forum.

Will you autograph my soapbox? I love you and want to frame this post!

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by KLPDaisy

Exactly. Let the NPC sororities run AI the way they want to without any input from you, and since you care so much about AI, work with your fraternity on improving/changing your AI policy.

It is not just that, but all of the things that have gone on considering the AI idea and some of the things taht have been said about them and the PNAI people which has belittled them.

They end up working harder than a bunch of women going through Formal Rush and are not given enough credit for what they are doing and why.

I have seen so many great women on GC who have gone through GC and working very hard to help their New Sisters and then are belittled and degraded by being AIs who just went shopping.

What is Formal Recruitment but just the same thing but easier.


Hi, I am Sally and I am really liking XYX and I want to be a Sister?

Yes, I can post on this thread with my oppinion as I can on any as a member of GC.

[AlexMack]

Okay, here's what's bugging me. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out people who wake up one day and go 'something's missing in my life, I think I need to join a sorority,' long after college. I don't mean any offense to the ladies here who are members through AI. Obviously your GLO felt you would be a good fit for your organization, hence your letters.

Rather, it's the shopping around. It's all well and good to do that in college, it's encouraged there. It's after college and shopping around for a sorority that will AI that I don't get. What are you going to get from joining a sorority now that you can't get somewhere else?

A good friend of mine is the house director for one of the sororities on my campus. This GLO (from what I understand) AIs under special circumstances. Those women love my friend and she loves them back. She does a lot for that sorority and should they offer to sponsor her for AI (which is a definite possibility), I think she'll accept.
Another example: one of my best friends is an XYZ. She was the one that made me want to go greek. Through her I met her sisters and got as close a look at greek life as any outsider can get. Let's say I didn't join my organization and I've graduated. Because I had a personal connection with those sisters and their GLO, I think it would be appropriate to discuss AI at that point.

I am for AI within the right circumstances. Deciding that you missed out in college and now you want to join a sorority, any sorority that will take you-that I'm against.

Tom-AI is not the wave of the future. It's a discreet and meaningful process not to be taken lightly. People who don't want this forum feel that it misrepresents what AI actually is. AI is not a recruitment process for people who missed out in college and want letters, any letters.
It's also rare. The reason there are so many AIs on GC? Well, look at the age demographic. I'm still in college at 22. I am in the minority here. Most of you are alumnae, you're older, you miss your college years/enjoy being greek and you converge here to talk about it. That's why there seem to be so many AIs, even though there truly aren't that many. It's a skewed statistical sample.
If this forum did not exist, AI would go back to sorority members recommending women to join their organization, which is what it was originally designated for.
I'm not personally arguing for or against the existence of this forum, I merely understand people who do not want it to exist.

[tunatartare]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

It is not just that, but all of the things that have gone on considering the AI idea and some of the things taht have been said about them and the PNAI people which has belittled them.

You are not the PNAI's father. Blueangel is not their mother. It is neither of your jobs to stick up for and support every single PNAI that stumbles accross GC.

They end up working harder than a bunch of women going through Formal Rush and are not given enough credit for what they are doing and why.

again I have to ask- why do you care? they aren't trying to join your organization

I have seen so many great women on GC who have gone through GC and working very hard to help their New Sisters and then are belittled and degraded by being AIs who just went shopping.

again, none of your business

What is Formal Recruitment but just the same thing but easier.

I have neither the time nor the energy to pull up all of the quotes that prove that AI and Formal Recruitment ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!! (There it's in big LXA colors. Maybe now you will get it.)

[greekalum]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

But if the other groups don't require the information to be withheld in such a way, aren't you infringing on other people's expression unnecessarily?

I apologize if it seemed that I was asking for your credentials. I was really questioning why you thought it was appropriate to limit others' speech in this way.


If you would like the ADPi policy to be what you described, that's one thing. I assume you know the wishes of your group. But all groups may not share your position.

(Don't you think it would take even more effort from the mods. to do what you described rather than have one forum to keep an eye on?)

Which is why AI discussions should belong in the pertinent organizations' forum. Each organization's members can then determine what course discussion takes as pertains to AI for THEIR organization. AI is not like recruitment where all 26 organizations have bonded together to follow certain procedures.

Also, Tom, I don't think anyone has denigrated actual AIs for "shopping." People have pointed out certain self proclaimed PNAIs (emphasis on the P) who appear to be doing this, and I bet the likelihood of any of these women joining an NPC organization is slim to none. We don't want to encourage women to pursue fool's errands, and we don't want women who are clearly a poor match for AI embarassing themselves and giving more unfit women the idea that this is something for everyone.

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

I have seen so many great women on GC who have gone through GC and working very hard to help their New Sisters and then are belittled and degraded by being AIs who just went shopping.

Tom, help me out. I think you're trying to say that there are women on GC who degrade AIs. Can you to point me to these posts? I've certainly not seen that. Yes, AIs are also represented in the "not so popular" group of posters on GC but I don't believe I've seen a post that belittled or degraded a woman b/c she's an AI. Posters can earn that pleasure regardless of how they got their letters or even without letters. Just so were on the same page...an AI is an actual member of a sorority that was initiated after her collegiate years where as a PNAM is a woman who may or may not one day be asked to join a sorority.

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

Tom, help me out. I think you're trying to say that there are women on GC who degrade AIs. Can you to point me to these posts? I've certainly not seen that. Yes, AIs are also represented in the "not so popular" group of posters on GC but I don't believe I've seen a post that belittled or degraded a woman b/c she's an AI. Posters can earn that pleasure regardless of how they got their letters or even without letters. Just so were on the same page...an AI is an actual member of a sorority that was initiated after her collegiate years where as a PNAM is a woman who may or may not one day be asked to join a sorority.

In the almost 6 years I've been here on GC, I don't think I've seen an instance where AIs were treated rudely just because she's an AI.

Now, there were a number of occasions where an AI was treated poorly because of reasons other than her membership into an organization via AI. Those are two separate things.

I think someone's just making stuff up again, just like how "AI is the wave of the future." (All future use of that line should be used in quotation marks because I still believe that no International Officer -- president or otherwise -- would ever dare say such a thing)

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Some of you who want this forum deleted seem really comfortable speaking for everyone.

Some seem to think that because they don't like the direction of some of the threads that they should be able to eliminate the possibility of posting.


Why can't the forum exist and you request that the posts the violate the wishes of your whole organization get deleted?


Why should your desires on the issue trump the wishes of other people to post, as long as they are not violating the rules of their groups?

You raise a fair point.

For my part, my statement a few pages back that AI forums should not be on the internet is not my way of saying that I am going to actively campaign against such a thing- or make it a personal cause to get AI removed from GC. It is not my place to get involved in that.

Adpiucf has made some brilliant posts today, and I largely agree with what she has said.

The issue is not whether GC members have a right to say if a given forum should exist- that is for the mods and the owner to say.

Rather the issue is the basic fact that- as has already been well stated by others- AI is NOT an alternate form of recruitment. It is an honor bestowed by GLOs in their own time and by their own decision process.

Somewhere up above someone made a comment that it appeared to her Gamma Phi Beta was one of the easiest places to AI.

That is a tremendously disrespectful statement that implies sisterhood is for sale and that the great honor of AI can be had for a little aggressive campaigning on one's own behalf.

Ultimately there is just not much to say. You either "get it" or you don't.

Anyone seeking to AI is well advised to undertake this process privately- preferably with the assistance of a chapter you have worked with in the past.

Frankly, I think coming to an internet forum to get help to AI without having any past connection to a GLO chapter has the potential to do more harm than good.

[UGAalum94]

I'm not part of the collective agreement that discussion of AI is discussion of membership selection, at least in the sense that it must be kept secret. There are open parts of the process as well as secret, at least in some GLOs. You may consider this point proved, but I don’t.

I have no strong feelings about AI as a process, but if a woman who joined through AI wanted to share her story, I would consider it as valid as a rush story or a COB story. She would be sharing her path to Alpha Gamma Delta as she experienced it, and as she went through through the process, she would be unlikely to know any secret information. After she went through it, she would be as bound by our ritual as any member not to share any secrets of AI membership selection.

But to be honest, I never much read the AI forum, and I don’t think I’d personally miss it if it were gone. I’m more concerned with the effort to suppress speech that you just don’t like, or you just don’t think should be out there.

I don’t think things should be deleted that don’t violate the TOS or the rules of the particular group being discussed. If you create the expectation that sub-forums or threads can be deleted if several very vocal people demand it, this site will be less helpful and less interesting.

If you represent your group, regulate the activity of your group, but don’t try to limit the discussion for others.

I just want to add: Had the idea of creating an AI forum for each group rather than one for all been the only focus of this thread, I probably would have been down with that. But because that idea has alternated with an "AI shouldn't even be discussed online ever" argument, it's a little suspicious to me now.