Quota Additions at Super Competitive Schools

[OleMissGlitter]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

This is why I wonder why the lodge concept has never been big. You have a smaller number of women living in to help pay the mortgage/rent, but still have the meeting and storage rooms. It can be a privilege to live there, rather a requirement. Students can have more of a choice.

I thought huge houses to have to fill, heat and cool would die out, but that has not been the case.

One of these days, enrollments will drop...and/or going Greek will NOT be a big deal, and we may regret building the mansions. Things always go in cycles. You have to be prepared for the bad times, too.

Totally agree with you. I know that was the main reason why AOII at Ole Miss did not add more rooms when they added on a chapter room and extension to their dining room. Plus, even strong chapters can struggle keeping their house full. Why put that added stress on your members?

Of course I wouldn't trade my 3 years of living in the AOII house at Ole Miss for any apartment, condo, etc!

[aggieAXO]

Originally Posted by LadyLonghorn

My folks bought my place and it worked out nicely for all of us. You probably have to plunk down more money up front in Austin than most places, but the price of real estate around campus continues to increase, so it's a good bet you'll still make money off the deal.

When I moved to Austin in 97 I was in sticker shock, I could not believe how much more real estate cost. Yes, there was money to be made if you had enough for a down payment. I bought a condo 10 minutes from downtown and within 5 years it almost doubled in price.

[dnall]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

This is why I wonder why the lodge concept has never been big. You have a smaller number of women living in to help pay the mortgage/rent, but still have the meeting and storage rooms. It can be a privilege to live there, rather a requirement. Students can have more of a choice.

I thought huge houses to have to fill, heat and cool would die out, but that has not been the case.

One of these days, enrollments will drop...and/or going Greek will NOT be a big deal, and we may regret building the mansions. Things always go in cycles. You have to be prepared for the bad times, too.

Lodges are problematic. You really need to cover the mortgage 100% from rent. Otherwise you're even more prone to problems when that business cycle circulates to the lower side.

You need A size chapter room, dining room, common areas, etc to support B range of chapter size. That determines everything.

You have to pay for it with X rooms at Y per month. You can warehouse people in there to keep rates low, but then you have trouble filling it when times are tough. Or, what's going on a lot more lately is, you can put in fewer rooms in a suite or even apartment style setup at a higher rate. That makes for a lot less to fill & easier to get people in there, which better weathers the tough times.

There's kind of a formula to it. There's no reason you can't have a big house that you can keep full without all those problems. It's just a matter of designing what's going to work best economically for the situation, location, and chapter. There's a couple really good companies out there that are good at figuring out that calculus. I don't think a lodge model is great answer in most cases, but I guess it could work under certain circumstances.

[Mevara]

Originally Posted by carnation

We've talked on GC about forced prefs. These days, prefs are rarely forced but the PNMs have that carrot of QAs if they maximize their options. Still, I think that many, many girls are going to some pref parties unwillingly and that could account for the flood of 'rude PNM' stories that we've gotten on the Weird Rush Stories thread (maybe if I flip off the undesirable group, they'll cut me!")

This might not be a popular idea but maybe PNMs should be allowed to "cut" chapters before pref. If you think about it as much as we say it is a mutual selection process it really isn't for the PNMs, unless they get invited back to more chapters than they can attend.

[33girl]

As far as maximizing options goes...

It's one thing when you have to go to one pref party you don't want and two that you do like. You are lucky enough that you should be able to suck it up for an hour and be nice to the sorority you want no part of.

If you are going into pref with only one group (who you detest) left, I hate to break it to you, but unless your dream group REALLY effed up their RFM and cut too many people, you're probably not going to be a QA for them. You might as well drop out of rush if you're dead set you don't want to be in this group and you don't believe anything will happen at pref to change your mind. You might be wrong, but it's up to you.

[HQWest]

I have advised at chapters with a big house, with a floor arrangement, and with a lodge arrangement. There are big problems with the lodge or floor arrangement that the house does not have. It is harder for the girls to see where their money goes. It is hard to get the girls to take ownership (pick up after themselves). They have to pay a lot for real estate that Could be used for study hours mini meetings, etc., but often sits empty when they aren't having chapter. You have to balance access who can use the room, when, what are they responsible for - with security. T-shirts, food, etc. go missing. A few live-in officers end up doing 90% of the work both cleanin and adminstrative.

The other big problem is that there is an increase in the drama queen quotient. "If you don't do what I say - I quit." "I don't have to follow these rules - I quit." It seems to be a lot easier for someone to walk away, to not feel bad about relinquishing their membership if they can just walk away. If they have a disagreement and then have to go back to their room and thin about it - I think they are more inclined to constructive problem solving.

[FSUZeta]

you bring up some good points, hqwest.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by HQWest

The other big problem is that there is an increase in the drama queen quotient. "If you don't do what I say - I quit." "I don't have to follow these rules - I quit." It seems to be a lot easier for someone to walk away, to not feel bad about relinquishing their membership if they can just walk away. If they have a disagreement and then have to go back to their room and thin about it - I think they are more inclined to constructive problem solving.

Boy, have I seen this lately and not just in the college sorority arena either. People of all ages are dramatically quitting various things and I have to wonder if they're seeing this on TV or in the movies.

I don't give into the blackmail; I prefer to say, "Okay," and leave.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by HQWest

I have advised at chapters with a big house, with a floor arrangement, and with a lodge arrangement. There are big problems with the lodge or floor arrangement that the house does not have. It is harder for the girls to see where their money goes. It is hard to get the girls to take ownership (pick up after themselves). They have to pay a lot for real estate that Could be used for study hours mini meetings, etc., but often sits empty when they aren't having chapter. You have to balance access who can use the room, when, what are they responsible for - with security. T-shirts, food, etc. go missing. A few live-in officers end up doing 90% of the work both cleanin and adminstrative.

The other big problem is that there is an increase in the drama queen quotient. "If you don't do what I say - I quit." "I don't have to follow these rules - I quit." It seems to be a lot easier for someone to walk away, to not feel bad about relinquishing their membership if they can just walk away. If they have a disagreement and then have to go back to their room and thin about it - I think they are more inclined to constructive problem solving.

I guess I have a different concept of what a "lodge" or "floor" is than other people are talking about.

As far as a floor...you're still paying as you would pay for any other dorm room and (I'm assuming/hoping) having the cleaning crew to come in on a regular basis as they would in any other dorm room. That includes the suite which I was guessing was at the end of the hall.

And I was reading "lodge" as just set up more like a ski-lodge type place (yinzers, if you've ever been to UPJ you know what I'm talking about) with bigger bedrooms and less common space as opposed to a large house with a big chapter room and teeny bedrooms. I don't get where this type of arrangement would engender less ownership feelings. Unless, of course, we're all talking about different things.

Having experience with a group (not mine) who had a partial floor & a suite at the end, the suite had a TV and was basically their private TV room...this was respected by the other girls on the hall...it wasn't as though no one could go in the suite except during meetings. That would have defeated the purpose.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by carnation

Boy, have I seen this lately and not just in the college sorority arena either. People of all ages are dramatically quitting various things and I have to wonder if they're seeing this on TV or in the movies.

I don't give into the blackmail; I prefer to say, "Okay," and leave.

I was thinking about my alma mater, and why even the top groups took sophomores, without any type of sophomore quota, and my working theory is that there are so many retention problems that having a sophomore for three years is about the same as having a freshman who will quit her senior year anyway.

[IndianaSigKap]

Originally Posted by carnation

Boy, have I seen this lately and not just in the college sorority arena either. People of all ages are dramatically quitting various things and I have to wonder if they're seeing this on TV or in the movies.

I don't give into the blackmail; I prefer to say, "Okay," and leave.

When I first advised a small chapter, this was the norm. Members would storm in and say they were quitting. I would simply hold out my hand. They looked at me oddly, and I would tell them that if their sorority didn't mean that much to them they were welcome to put their badge in my hand and I would start the paper work. I only had to do that about three or four times until the overly dramatic overtures stopped.

[carnation]

^^^ Like

[DubaiSis]

Getting back to the original thread, isn't this something the big panhellenic groups could work on? Those women are seeing a large number of PNMs prior to recruitment, and it seems they could achieve a lot for their chapters by explaining QAs, the benefits to accepting (happily/grudgingly) that smaller chapter, and what exactly to do with your pref card.

I would hope that as more PNMs are doing more internet research prior to recruitment, they will start to pick this up and maybe not be so shocked and dismayed by ending up with their last choice. Even a change in a few girls on these super competitive campuses who are willing to stick it out could make such a beneficial impact on that bottom tier chapter. Maybe not quota in a year, but improvement nonetheless.

And yes, I live in fairyland.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by IndianaSigKap

When I first advised a small chapter, this was the norm. Members would storm in and say they were quitting. I would simply hold out my hand. They looked at me oddly, and I would tell them that if their sorority didn't mean that much to them they were welcome to put their badge in my hand and I would start the paper work. I only had to do that about three or four times until the overly dramatic overtures stopped.

Like.

As a regional volunteer, I've had women reply to me baffled when they call/email with "I don't want to do x so I'm going to quit" and my response is "Okay."

I've found that the drama queens want you to get down on your hands and knees and say "noooooo don't quit, we neeeed you!!!" so when you don't, they're like a deer in headlights.

[carnation]

Like.