Is sex really that big of a deal?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I don't mean this in a bad way, so don't take it as such - however, I think it's really telling that you basically misunderstood everything I just posted.

First - sexual interaction is the need (or at least some sexualized part of the relationship), not sex itself.

Second - an 'excuse' to cheat is not what I'm discussing here, so that's kind of irrelevant . . . but one reason why distance relationships are incredibly difficult is because of the lack of physical contact, including sexual contact.

Can they work? Sure, if both people can 'survive' and meet their particular needs (or ignore them). Again, though, I think it says a lot that you're looking at corner cases and cheating, when that's not really what I'm talking about.



This was exactly my point - it's not required, but for a large part of the population, it's preferred, desired and perhaps even expected (not of the woman, but of the relationship).



You have serious sample size and selection bias issues here, but that's again not my point - taking this to "MUST BE APPEASED" is ridiculous, and again is quite telling. There is no 'appeasement' issue here - it's about personal preference and relationship needs, not some sort of perverse (or misogynistic, which is the more troubling implication) drive for "bad touch."

Your mentality on sex is very insular - that's fine, and I'm glad it works for you. But you're shutting out my earnest efforts here, for really no reason.

Actually I think we're agreeing more than you think.
I'm certainly not saying that people should force themselves into a relationship where they'll be unhappy. I agree that sexual interaction is important for 99% of the population. I guess I disagree that there aren't guys who are a) virgins until marriage, and/or b) willing to date a girl who is waiting until marriage. Those guys are out there you just need a larger population sample.

I think I just know a bunch of nice guys actually. I'm not saying they were all virgins but that they'd be willing to date one without the sole goal of getting her into bed.

My comments on "Appeasement" were simply in reference to the rather popular idea these days that guys have to have sex, more so than girls. It's an old idea but not gone.

We don't seem to find the idea of a girl choosing to remain a virgin surprising. Rarer than it used to be perhaps, but not shocking. However the assumption is that guys are sexually focused and a male virgin is shocking and there's probably a negative reason attached to it (loser, etc.)

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

Sorry, I have all of them.

LOL. C'mon valkyrie, can I at least have one of them. Pretty Pleeeeeease!

[jwright25]

Here are my observations on sexual behavior in the past 10 years at the University that I attended and where I work closely with college women. My observations are only at this school and with this Panhellenic system, just because that's who I know.

When I was active - mid-1990s - I'd say about 20% of my chapter at most were not sexually active. We weren't whores, and were not known for our sexual activity like another chapter was. No one was promiscuous - everyone was discreet enough about their sexual activity that while we knew it was going on, it just wasn't a regular topic of conversation. Does that make sense?

When I advised the same chapter - early 2000 to now - I'd say about 50% of the chapter are virgins. That might even be a low estimate, it could be higher. Their reputation on campus is that they are classy and diverse and always have great recruitment, return rates, etc. They are vocal about their virginity. And these are girls who date a lot and date different boys and have fun seeing lots of different boys without feeling like they have to be in a committed relationship. When having discussions with some of the girls about these decisions, the reasons for remaining a virgin run from spiritual reasons to health reasons to intimacy reasons.

Another observation from my years to theirs is that the girls now are make-out bandits. They'll kiss boys like it was nothing - even some of the virgins. We had a few bandits, but nothing on the scale that it is today. The boys are the same way. Making out at a party (read: heavy kissing with no nudity) is just part of the party now. Neither person expects sex from it, and neither person expects a date that weekend.

I am the least judgmental person out there, so therefore the girls (and many guys in the fraternity my husband advises) spill everything to me. I don't think anyone is wrong, and I never express an opinion to them unless asked. I love to hear what motivates college students in many different aspects of their lives.

The boys who date the virgins are very respectful of the girls' wishes. Have some of the girls given in? After time, yes. Does that make them a bad person or a sellout? NO. They held out for a reason and they gave in for a reason. That's their choice to make.

If you advertise your virginity, you have to expect that sexually active men will not want to pursue you. You aren't wrong for being a virgin and they aren't wrong for wanting sex.

Regardless of what statistics are put out there by special interest groups, I have to believe that the vast majority of adults over the age of 18 are sexually active. Out of the single men that I know (these are college-aged men) I'm going to estimate that only 10% of them are celibate. This is based on conversations with them and with the girls who know them. Let's adjust that a bit for other factors and assume that 25% of single men are not sexually active. Of those 25%, I'd say half did not make that choice - meaning they'd have sex if someone would agree. So that leaves you with 12% of the population of men who don't have sex by choice, or would be willing to be in a sexless relationship.

That's an awfully small amount of men to choose from. So your other standards will have to be lowered. If you want the virgin, you might have to take the not-so-attractive, or the unambitious, or the lazy, etc. OR you can just wait around and hope that Prince Charming will come along. But you can't complain while waiting. The girls who choose not to have sex are (most of them) not in a committed relationship. They are going on lots of dates and not worrying about it. If it gets to "that time" in the relationship where sex is imminent, they break the news. If the boy runs, that's fine. She's not that attached. If he's fine with it, they give the relationship a go.

If you don't want people to judge you for not having sex, you can't judge them for choosing to have sex.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by jwright25

Out of the single men that I know (these are college-aged men) I'm going to estimate that only 10% of them are celibate.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you don't want people to judge you for not having sex, you can't judge them for choosing to have sex.

1. Did you really mean celibate or did you mean abstinent? Just thought I'd ask.

2. Are you using the general "you" or were you talking to me?

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

1. Did you really mean celibate or did you mean abstinent? Just thought I'd ask.

2. Are you using the general "you" or were you talking to me?

1 - Good catch - I meant abstinent. I work with the English language for a living - shame on me!

2 - I meant in general, virgins who consider themselves superior to non-virgins or feel that people who have sex should be ashamed of that fact. I infer from your posts that you have dated men who have been sexually active, so I must assume that you do not discriminate against non-virgins. But there are many people who take the "holier than thou" attitude about this subject.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by jwright25

1 - Good catch - I meant abstinent. I work with the English language for a living - shame on me!

2 - I meant in general, virgins who consider themselves superior to non-virgins or feel that people who have sex should be ashamed of that fact. I infer from your posts that you have dated men who have been sexually active, so I must assume that you do not discriminate against non-virgins. But there are many people who take the "holier than thou" attitude about this subject.

LOL, if I discriminated against non-virgins, I'd be a virgin for the rest of my life. Unless I moved to Amish country and let my adoptive family marry me off to the neighbor, but I've never looked good in hats, so I doubt a bonnet would be much better.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

LOL, if I discriminated against non-virgins, I'd be a virgin for the rest of my life. Unless I moved to Amish country and let my adoptive family marry me off to the neighbor, but I've never looked good in hats, so I doubt a bonnet would be much better.

You won't necessarily find virgins there, either.

[christiangirl]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I just can't catch a break either way, huh?

[ThetaLove]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Is sex really such a big deal that you would pass up a good woman if you don't get it?

Yes and no. Sex is a very important part of a mature relationship. Unfortunately, the guys that bailed after finding out that you were not going to have sex with them either really weren't into you or were not looking for the kind of mature relationship that you were looking for. Now, I don't mean to say that a person who chooses to stop dating someone because of a difference in opinion about when sex is appropriate is a sex maniac or anything. They have that right to do as they please and at least they checked out before the relationship progressed.
I believe that you can have a healthy relationship without having sex. However, both people need to be upfront about their feelings... it seems like you were upfront and that is what caused the guy to flee.
Trust me, you will find a guy that is into you for who you are and will be willing to put his desires on hold until you are ready.

(sorry, I didn't read the entire thread so I hope I'm not jumping to conclusions.)

p.s.- I'm a virgin in a serious relationship with a non virgin.

[ziasha07]

Disclaimer: I skimmed the last few pages so foorgive me if I repeat anything...

Christian Girl: I feel you on the Hot Mess girls thing. Just because I'm not all up in a man's face, I don't have a rep, or I don't wear revealing clothes, I fly under dude's radar or I don't get noticed. I don't understand it.
(I participate in a lot of open speaking/Rap session type things and) Then a dude wanna step up and say that he wants a nice girl, that wifey type of female, one that you know is loyal and whoop-di-whoop, what not, blah blah. Then I see the same guy all up in somebody face that is skanky or has a rep.

I just wanna say that as a V-Card holder, I don't think myself as superior to any female that is not. I recognize that I'm a rare deal in some place and that's ok. I just have to know that dudes are going to be more wary of dating me because they feel or know that they won't/it will be hard for them to get some.

Lol. I'm just a nice girl, lookin for a nice dude to work with me.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

I'm not trying to pick on you, but this is disturbing. You're saying that ignorance is a good thing in this situation? Is it a good thing in other situations?

Here's what I really think -- the attitude you have might be admirable in some circles (devout Christians) but you're selling yourself short. There's NO REASON to spend your life with some one-minute man who couldn't satisfy a woman to save his life. I'm not saying you should go out and hit it with the next dude on the street, but isn't it possible that the whole save-yourself-for-marriage thing was established a LONG ass time ago, when people got married at the age of 12, had 19 kids, and died before 40? Maybe it's time to re-evaluate.

Yes, that's possible....just like it's possible my husband will lay it down better than any man on the block. And even more possible that I made my decision to stay a virgin BEFORE I became a Christian, so none of that matters and the re-evaluation isn't necessary. I'm setting myself up to be content with what I have by not venturing where I don't really want to venture. I don't see it as selling myself short or being ignorant and IMO how I see it is more important than the "circles" I run in or the ones I don't. I know you're trying to look out for me, but trust me, I thought about this long and hard before I decided, even changed my mind once (then changed it back--obviously).

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

And even more possible that I made my decision to stay a virgin BEFORE I became a Christian.

Why??? I only kept that promise to myself, back when I was a "good" Christian. Before and after that period...my answer is "when I find the right person", not "when I get married".

[ziasha07]

Not to be overly religious but w/abstinence has to faith. The faith that you'll get the right man that will be for you as far as sex is concerned.

[Dionysus]

Huh?

[valkyrie]

Well, you kids have fun with your virginity. I am so bored of this topic I couldn't possibly ever read or write anything about it again. I hope you don't end up with husbands who have tiny penises, poor technique, or entitlement issues.