Yale's Comprehensive Sexual Misconduct Guide

[1964Alum]

LOL! You posted earlier that you were not a member of a GLO but that your three children were! Enough said.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

LOL! You posted earlier that you were not a member of a GLO but that your three children were! Enough said.

Which post?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...the language in Title IX puts reporting responsibility on anyone who a student could reasonably perceive to be representing the school, and there seems to be a growing consensus that such language includes a much larger number of faculty/staff members than had previously been trained on this stuff. I found this pretty surprising, because that means that, at some schools, students could report stuff to their academic adviser or professors or RA's, for example, and it wouldn't have gone anywhere. I'm glad that schools are working to remedy that, because 1) it means we'll get a better idea of the true stats, and from there, possibly be better able to address root causes, and 2) it means that victims who are reporting stuff are going to get the appropriate support at the U, rather than some untrained faculty or staff member having no idea what to do.

This aspect, at least, seems very uncontroversial. I don't see how it could possibly be a bad thing to make sure students get the proper support, and the fact that processes were this sloppy in the past underscores, IMO, the need for all these investigations and the attention to this issue.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...the language in Title IX puts reporting responsibility on anyone who a student could reasonably perceive to be representing the school, and there seems to be a growing consensus that such language includes a much larger number of faculty/staff members than had previously been trained on this stuff. I found this pretty surprising, because that means that, at some schools, students could report stuff to their academic adviser or professors or RA's, for example, and it wouldn't have gone anywhere. I'm glad that schools are working to remedy that, because 1) it means we'll get a better idea of the true stats, and from there, possibly be better able to address root causes, and 2) it means that victims who are reporting stuff are going to get the appropriate support at the U, rather than some untrained faculty or staff member having no idea what to do.

[b]This aspect, at least, seems very uncontroversial. I don't see how it could possibly be a bad thing to make sure students get the proper support, and the fact that processes were this sloppy in the past underscores, IMO, the need for all these investigations and the attention to this issue.

for anyone who is interested:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/lis...cs/shguide.pdf
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/lis...4-title-ix.pdf
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/lis...gue-201104.pdf

[robinseggblue]

Honorgal, is this you?

http://www.salon.com/2014/12/11/prin...ng_experience/

[DrPhil]

Oh crap, not Princeton Mom again. Attention whore.

While we're at it, for most violent offenses and property offenses, the offender-victim relationship is that of family, friend, or acquaintance.

So, to save some much needed resources, let's remove all of these offenses from the books so they can no longer be punishable under the law.

Unless you've been victimized by a complete stranger, there is nothing society and the criminal justice system can and will do to help. I hope it was all a learning experience. Choose better company next time because, after all, we are the company we keep.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by robinseggblue

Honorgal, is this you?

http://www.salon.com/2014/12/11/prin...ng_experience/

If so, I finally have her answer to what she would call it when a man has sex with a woman who has said no: It's just a "learning experience."

If it's not her, perhaps she'll answer. I won't hold my breath, though.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

If so, I finally have her answer to what she would call it when a man has sex with a woman who has said no: It's just a "learning experience."

If it's not her, perhaps she'll answer. I won't hold my breath, though.

Oh, I thought it was a joke. Nope, sorry to disappoint your fevered imaginations, not me. None of my kids went to Princeton, nor did I (I assume she or one of her kids did). And I've never been on CNN. Rats!

[1964Alum]

Honorgal posted:


ETA: My bias is not against any victim. My bias is against political ideology that has no principles and no regard for truth or facts. Last edited by honorgal; Yesterday at 05:16 PM.


It is clear to me that this has been a political rant all along. Go to any right wing blog like Free Republic dot com and you will find the same language. Honorgal posted a link to that very blog on her first go-around on this topic last spring. People on that particular blog are often told to go "Freep" online polls and message boards.

Now where is the "Ignore" button?

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

Honorgal posted:


ETA: My bias is not against any victim. My bias is against political ideology that has no principles and no regard for truth or facts. Last edited by honorgal; Yesterday at 05:16 PM.


It is clear to me that this has been a political rant all along. Go to any right wing blog like Free Republic dot com and you will find the same language. Honorgal posted a link to that very blog on her first go-around on this topic last spring. People on that particular blog are often told to go "Freep" online polls and message boards.

Now where is the "Ignore" button?

I have never posted a link to the Free Republic, on here or anywhere else. Can you show me the post? And while you are at it, perhaps you can show me the post that backs up your other baseless accusation.

[1964Alum]

Originally Posted by honorgal

I have never posted a link to the Free Republic, on here or anywhere else. Can you show me the post? And while you are at it, perhaps you can show me the post that backs up your other baseless accusation.

Here is the link you posted:

http://archive.freep.com/assets/free...C422124157.PDF

And no, you can find your own posts to "edit" them so as to make disappear things you initially said in them.

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by 1964Alum

Here is the link you posted:

http://archive.freep.com/assets/free...C422124157.PDF

And no, you can find your own posts to "edit" them so as to make disappear things you initially said in them.

You owe me an apology. But I won't hold my breath.

www.freep.com is the Detroit Free Press URL. It's a newspaper. In Detroit. Not exactly a bastion of right wing activists.

[DrPhil]

(I think it was rhetorical sarcasm when she asked if honorgal is Princeton Mom.)

I identify as "middle wing" or "no wing--they all suck".

I think we all know that these are complex issues. There can be fairness and unfairness across the board. I agree that women are not perpetual victims and we need to do away with both the offender mentality and the victim mentality as extreme ways of addressing these social issues. We do want (potential) victims to be able to voice opposition if able to do so.

But, the issue I have with people who coat this as "she should've stopped him" and "it isn't really rape" is that the very same people who espouse this viewpoint would fly to the highest hill of heaven if this was their loved one alleging that she had been raped. Sure, these people may "slut shame" this loved one given certain circumstances but the louder viewpoint would be "stop the press, I'm tired of this mess happening to our DAHHHLING family member!!!"

It really reminds me of the pro-life and pro-choice debate. There are pro-lifers who have had abortions and who have urged the women in their families to have abortions because somehow the women in their families are more awesome and deserving of an untainted future than everyone else.

/rant

[honorgal]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

(I think it was rhetorical sarcasm when she asked if honorgal is Princeton Mom.)

I identify as "middle wing" or "no wing--they all suck".

I think we all know that these are complex issues. There can be fairness and unfairness across the board. I agree that women are not perpetual victims and we need to do away with both the offender mentality and the victim mentality as extreme ways of addressing these social issues. We do want (potential) victims to be able to voice opposition if able to do so.

But, the issue I have with people who coat this as "she should've stopped him" and "it isn't really rape" is that the very same people who espouse this viewpoint would fly to the highest hill of heaven if this was their loved one alleging that she had been raped. Sure, these people may "slut shame" this loved one given certain circumstances but the louder viewpoint would be "stop the press, I'm tired of this mess happening to our DAHHHLING family member!!!"

It really reminds me of the pro-life and pro-choice debate. There are pro-lifers who have had abortions and who have urged the women in their families to have abortions because somehow the women in their families are more awesome and deserving of an untainted future than everyone else.

/rant

I think every allegation should be taken seriously and examined thoroughly. If we take the example of UVA, we see an almost unanimous reflex to do the former, and a lot of loud noisy and unfair opposition to the latter. That's not going to solve the problem.

As for what I bolded, whether intended or not, the message that is evolving from activists is the opposite. I think that message infantilized and puts more women in danger. I respect the opposing view, but I don't see much evidence of reciprocity. (Maybe an occasional hint )

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by honorgal

I think every allegation should be taken seriously and examined thoroughly.

You should put this in your signature to override anything you type to the contrary.