What teachers really want to tell parents.

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Nonsnarky questions, did someone in this thread try to say that you are making too much money as a teacher?

No, I think its just that some people (so far no one on GC) think that teachers do make too much money. They use the excuse "oh they are off for 3 months in the summer" and "they only work until 3pm", stuff like that. Which isn't really true anymore.

More and more schools are going year round. When I worked year round I started back late July/Early August. I got 1-2 (depending on the district) weeks off in October. 2-3 (again district) weeks off for Christmas and then 1-2 weeks off for spring break. We then had 6 weeks off for summer vacation (if that as most teachers tried to work over the summer for extra money).

With the DOD, I'm on a typical school calendar and I believe my summer vacation was like 10-11 weeks. My last day was June 15 and I reported back August 22. I then get 2 weeks for Christmas.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

More and more schools are going year round. When I worked year round I started back late July/Early August. I got 1-2 (depending on the district) weeks off in October. 2-3 (again district) weeks off for Christmas and then 1-2 weeks off for spring break. We then had 6 weeks off for summer vacation (if that as most teachers tried to work over the summer for extra money).

(Note: ASUADPi.. the entire post to follow is not only directed at you.. I didn't want you to get that impression!)

So at the least you had 10 weeks off, and at the most you had 14 weeks off. At my first job, I had NO weeks off. And I worked at a law firm as a paralegal, where you met deadlines.. period. If you had to stay until 9pm to meet a deadline, you did.

At my current job, I get 4 weeks off, and I work 10-12 hour days, every day. I travel, and it can be exhausting. A big part of what I do is train people in an electronic filing system, and while most days I like my job, it can also be the most frustrating thing ever. I have people who refuse to participate, people who are on their phones the entire time, people who bitch, try to get away with not working in the system, then ask every question in the book a month later because they don't know what they're doing.. and I have no parent to go to in order to straighten them out. I make a decent amount of money, but not for where I live. If I was still in PA, I'd be living large. But I started here at a decent amount, I received a 12% raise last year, and an 11% raise this year, and I STILL live at home. Jersey is EXPENSIVE.

I'm not trying to start anything.. I'm just pointing out that yes, teachers do get a lot of time off.. and I don't feel bad for them if they "only" get 10 weeks off. And I don't feel bad because they work long hours... welcome to America. We work more than any other country, and that goes for many professions. To anyone who suggests that the rest of us don't understand.. some of us do. We all deal with on-the-job stressors.. we just deal with different ones (although I think that a lot of mine are strangely similar to teachers').

I do sympathize with teachers, however, in that they have to deal with parents who will always take their child's side. It happens, and I believe this article is only directed at those particular parents. Mine went to conferences, and they listened. Parents don't have to believe the teacher, but as a fellow human being, they should respect them. Even if the parent wants to listen to nothing of what the teacher has to say, then they don't have to.. but they shouldn't come at them in an aggressive manner after they turn to their child to ask them what happened, and they respond, "Nothing."

There are some teachers who are amazing, and some that aren't. Some teachers get paid a lot, some don't. Again, it's the same with many professions. While I've never worked in the educational system, I know many people who have - some of my friends are teachers, my mom served as the president of the Board of Education when we lived in NH, my best friend's entire family is in the profession.. I've heard all of the stories, the good and the bad. And I could go on and on about the sucky teachers getting paid more than the good ones.. and teachers getting tenure too easily.. and kids being more unruly/disrespecful than ever before, and teachers receiving pensions.. and on and on and on.

The long and short of it is that parents should respect teachers, teachers should respect parents, and everyone should understand the need for a good relationship between both of those parties and the child they share responsibility for.

[agzg]

The whole "You don't understand! You're not a teacher!" reminds me of the "You don't get to have an opinion on kids! You're not a parent!" or "You don't get to have an opinion on birth! You've never done it."

Yeah. Okie dokie then. Reaaaaaaaaaal productive, that.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by agzg

The whole "You don't understand! You're not a teacher!" reminds me of the "You don't get to have an opinion on kids! You're not a parent!" or "You don't get to have an opinion on birth! You've never done it."

Yeah. Okie dokie then. Reaaaaaaaaaal productive, that.

To play the devil's advocate...

Don't we do the same thing here on GC? There are some very strong feelings on this board that people should not give out recruitment information if they have no firsthand knowledge of the process of the school or conference in question.

I wouldn't dream of offering detailed advice about an SEC recruitment because I have no personal experience in that department. I wouldn't give advice about NPHC because I know nothing about it.

Did I have thoughts and opinions about children before I became a parent? Yes. Did I have thoughts and opinions about delivery before I became pregnant? Yes. Am I better qualified to speak to those issues now that I've experienced both? Yes.

Are all people entitled to have opinions about education? Yes. Do all people have the education, skills and experience to make valuable contributions to the discussion? No. I don't think educators are trying to tell people they shouldn't contribute to the conversation. But unless you are a teacher, you really don't know what it is like to be a teacher. Being a student for 13 or 17 years doesn't make a person insightful on the experience and plight of a teacher.

And even after going through pregnancy and having a child... I still keep my mouth shut about those topics most of the time.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

To play the devil's advocate...

Don't we do the same thing here on GC? There are some very strong feelings on this board that people should not give out recruitment information if they have no firsthand knowledge of the process of the school or conference in question.

I wouldn't dream of offering detailed advice about an SEC recruitment because I have no personal experience in that department. I wouldn't give advice about NPHC because I know nothing about it.

Did I have thoughts and opinions about children before I became a parent? Yes. Did I have thoughts and opinions about delivery before I became pregnant? Yes. Am I better qualified to speak to those issues now that I've experienced both? Yes.

Are all people entitled to have opinions about education? Yes. Do all people have the education, skills and experience to make valuable contributions to the discussion? No. I don't think educators are trying to tell people they shouldn't contribute to the conversation. But unless you are a teacher, you really don't know what it is like to be a teacher. Being a student for 13 or 17 years doesn't make a person insightful on the experience and plight of a teacher.

And even after going through pregnancy and having a child... I still keep my mouth shut about those topics most of the time.

There's a difference between teaching as a profession and membership in a fraternity and sorority, particularly because of the closed nature of ritual/membership selection, etc. Teachers don't typically keep secrets - in fact, at the core of their profession they are sharing knowledge.

One may not want to give advice on SEC recruitment, but any GC member who is correct can give advice about mutual selection, RFM, Quota, etc. It's when people get into rumor mongering that it gets them into trouble. Also when people give advice about clothes to wear when they're an asshole, that'll get them in trouble, too.

But shutting down someone's opinion about education because "they're not a teacher" is particularly counterproductive because many people who are shut down pay the taxes that allow public schools to remain open, and they certainly have a place in the dialogue.

Just like I'm well within my rights to call your kid an asshole if your kid is being an asshole, and I'm well within my rights to call you an asshole if you're the reason your kid is an asshole.

I don't think it's right to say "no you're wrong your experience is invalidated!" to a teacher because, obviously, they live it. But it's not impossible for someone who is not a teacher to understand what teachers go through every day (in fact, this understanding is a reason why I'm NOT a teacher), and it's not impossible for someone who's not a parent to understand what parents go through. It's not like it's a conceptually hard idea to grasp.

[XAntoftheSkyX]

This makes me feel so much better that I teach music and movement instead of core academics. I feel for those teachers, I really do. I like being able to do what I do best with little to no interaction from parents.

[Low C Sharp]

The problem isn't parents who listen to their children and come in willing to hear the teacher; the problem is the parents who will not even entertain the idea that their little snowflake could do anything wrong.

Completely agree. That just isn't what the article said. If that's what the author meant, it was poorly expressed.

I agree that the teacher, the adult, is unlikely to call a parent meeting unless she is certain that the your kid did the crime. But during that meeting, she is not very likely to volunteer that the student's crime followed an inappropriate action on her part. A good parent needs the whole story in order to decide the right way to discipline the kid.

Asking the student whether what the teacher said is true is also a good way to give the kid an opportunity to come clean rather than compounding the crime by lying. A good parent needs to know whether the kid understands the wrongness of his actions.

[SydneyK]

What Parents Wish Teachers Knew About Working as Partners

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Literally, I have 5 minutes before I head out the door to teach. Sweet irony . . .

Drole - While I could post everything I found to be hostile, I suspect that you would then disagree, and this could go on and on. It goes back to the whole "tone" thing in some cases - in others it goes back to the lack of respect given to teachers and their training, which leads me to . . .

Originally Posted by DrPhil

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

I do not think Drolefille was responding to that article but instead to KSUViolet's post about a teacher "diagnosing" (read: giving an opinion that may be relatively informed) a student. Such "diagnoses" should be researched and discussed but in many school systems for generations people went based on teacher and staff referrals rather than getting a second opinion. That is how a lot of students ended up in the "special" classes, the ones without windows and many of them didn't eat lunch with the "regular kids," and that includes students with physical "disabilities," mental "disabilities," and students with "conduct disorders."

Nope you were right.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

No, I don't want a cookie. I would like recognition of the fact that yes, my parenting is influenced by the fact I'm a teacher and guess what? ...

I was being, you might be shocked, sarcastic. Which is precisely how your comment came off. "Oh snap you guys, you wanted a parents' perspective AND YOU GOT ONE." you seemed to be saying. And yet it ignores the fact that that wasn't what people actually meant as your perspective on the parent/teacher relationship is necessarily skewed in one direction. No shit it's not a bad thing, but the point is that it's irrelevent to the discussion in the way you were trying to use it.

But you can just thank God you've never had to subject your children to the horror that would be having me as a teacher; praise Jesus you've never had to sit across the table from me as we tried to address your child's problems.

Other than my hypothetical child's hypothetical teacher having difficulty identifying sarcasm in others while employing it to hyperbolic effect herself, it probably wouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Oh, yes, that's exactly what I meant. Thank you for clarifying. Here I was thinking it was liable to be misinterpreted as pointing out that teacher's don't call meetings just to amuse themselves and to fill up all that spare time they have since they only work from 8 - 3, but you've summed it up nicely.

Sarcasm. You can't read it, and then use it, and then still somehow pretend that you didn't get it.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

As for diagnosing, we can't diagnose. Hell, we can't even hint at what we think is wrong. If I went to parent and said "I think Johnny is ADHD, you should take him to the doctor", mom can come back and make the district (or me) pay for the doctor treatments because I "diagnosed" her kid. I know for myself, I'm not taking that chance. I've got a kid right now who I know is ADHD, I am documenting, documenting, documenting. I will then approach the nurse and the guidance counselor on how to approach mom with my concerns. I may know that the kid is ADHD, but I cannot legally diagnose the kid as ADHD (if that makes any sense).

Makes sense, and is how it SHOULD be, because for example, ADHD requires deficits in two areas of a child's life. You only see 'school' and not 'home' and therefore while a child might be showing all the symptoms of ADHD at school, it might really NOT be ADHD but behavioral problems caused by some other source.

There are obviously other factors involved, but having school counselor classmates/friends, what you're doing is exactly what they'd like to see, and even though they're trained most of the time they'd still have to write a referral.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I stand corrected - you did not say every situation is different: you said

So please - instead of "every situation is different" insert "no one-size-fits-all". Whew! Glad to clarify THAT.

And as to being "stuck" - I've decided that you are determined to misconstrue anything I write, so I'll just bow to the inevitable and say I apologize in 12 different positions for thinking that my 20+ years as a parent and as an educator gave me any special insight to what may have prompted the article or how to improve parent/teacher communication.

There's some huge miscontruing going on, but it is NOT on DrPhil's part.

Originally Posted by katydidKD

this is why i said "im not going to argue" when DF tried to start shit with me. some people are just determined to bitch. not worth pleasing them.

If that's all it takes to start shit with you, how do you ever get through the day?

Originally Posted by katydidKD

now you're taking the analogy ridiculously out of context. I am saying that teachers are professionals and should be treated as such, just like you'd treat your doctor or lawyer. I just dont care to hear DF moan on and on. Like many other people.

There's an ignore function if you want to whine about me, you and your countless agreeing invisible people.

Originally Posted by katydidKD

Yes, i should have spoken more clearly.

Which is all I asked for in the first place.

But you know me, I'm so female with my complaining and moaning and whining and nagging.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That is wonderful. Children benefit when we combine the "teacher-to-parent" and "parent-to-teacher" messages.

http://dpi.wi.gov/fscp/pdf/prnt-ldrshp3rs.pdf

(I hope the .pdf shows up for everyone.)

The pdf showed up just fine for me - thanks for the link. The 3 R's are definitely important.

I think what it boils down to is that we're all on the same team. When we start pointing fingers about what each side is doing wrong, then it breaks down the effectiveness of the team, at the expense of the kids. If the parent/teacher relationship gets broken down into Us vs. Them, no one wins.

[katydidKD]

Yeah, teachers really are overpaid!!

CRIBS: TEACHERS (start at 2:00)

[bevinpiphi]

I teach in a 6th-8th grade functional special education room. My students fall into a pre-kindergarten to 3rd grade ability range. The parents of the 9 students in my classroom span the continuum for parent involvement and cooperation. I send home daily point sheets for all students in my classroom (2 of which have behavior plans that necessitate this), which also contain positive notes and daily classroom notes. I have parents who don't return calls, don't return forms, don't come to IEP meetings regarding their child (and never have, when looking at the file), to parents who are in constant communication and constant agreement and if not agreement, respect, to parents who think that their little snowflake never does anything wrong ("He stabbed you in the arm with scissors while you were helping a child who was having an allergic reaction because you must have done something") and that I'm a fool who is wrong about their child having little hope of age-appropriate functioning (He's in 8th grade. He reads at a 2nd grade level. He gained a half a grade level over a year. That's as good as it gets). It is immensely frustrating to have a parent of a child with a behavior disorder call and inform you that you are lying about their child being physical, and they know that because their little angel told them so. I believe that is the stuff the author of the article is talking about with the "Is that true?" statement.
I also make calls home, more often for positive things than for negative. I still hear the trepidation in parents' voices when I call them, even though this is now year 2 that I've been their child's teacher. Even if I am calling for something extremely negative (like the one child who punches. A LOT), I try to also include something positive (Like...your child punched but yay this time he did apologize and go to the office without argument). For many parents of students with special needs, the education world can be a big pile of "Your kid can't." Your kid can't read, your kid can't listen, your kid can't behave. I feel like if more teacher-parent communication was positive/praising instead of negative/correcting, this situation would be a bit better. I hear teachers at my school complain all the time about how hard it is to contact parents. Guess what? An e-mail takes you 2 minutes. Most phone calls take less than 5. A note home (I have a printout for good news from school) takes 3 minutes. Choose a few kids a week and make it a point to relay something positive from school to home. I have been making huge strides with both the student who is violent and his parents, and I think it's because I've kept at it, giving positive feedback. I haven't given up on this child, and I think that's what the parents were expecting me to do. They may have had a negative approach because they've only had negative experiences with the various schools their child has been at.
This issue is so much bigger than just parents and teachers. It is a cultural thing. Parenting styles and expectations have changed, and schools have largely remained the same. There needs to be major reform in education, but it won't happen anytime soon.

[KSig RC]

Remember that time, on Page 1, where I said the word "OVERPAID" would send this thread into a shitshow?

Holy crap I'm smart. Unfortunately, I'd be a terrible teacher - I hit stupid people about the head and neck, and also have trouble explaining concepts because my mastery outstrips my ability to relate. Luckily I'm only paid for the former - and you don't know what it's like, because you've never lived it. THE PATENT DOCKET DON'T STOP, SON

[KSUViolet06]

^^^I've been hearing about the average age of K12 teachers going down because of older teachers choosing to retire early in the face of controversial legislature being passed in their states (SB 5 and issue 2 in Ohio, but there have been similar laws that passed in other states) that make it not financially worthwhile for them to continue teaching. Ex: if a state law just slashed your benefits and your district plans to hit you with a pay freeze, you sometimes find it best to just retire.

Also, I've heard that teachers who maybe worked in other fields first and went to GRAD school for education (ex: a friend of mine went from Speech Pathology to Education), tend to handle the first few years in the classroom better and stick around longer than people coming straight out of undergrad. I've only heard that from teachers I know, though so it's probably not the same everywhere.

[glittergal1985]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

^^^

Also, I've heard that teachers who maybe worked in other fields first and went to GRAD school for education (ex: a friend of mine went from Speech Pathology to Education), tend to handle the first few years in the classroom better and stick around longer than people coming straight out of undergrad. I've only heard that from teachers I know, though so it's probably not the same everywhere.

I'm glad to hear that. I studied business in undergrad but will be finished with my master's in education in May. The New Jersey job market is anything but promising right now, but hopefully I will be moving to the Southwest soon.