Alabama recruitment fall-out

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by KDCat

Would you want to be an AA woman who joined an NPC sorority in the middle of that hurly burly at Alabama last fall? I wouldn't.

No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t want to be her mother either.

Originally Posted by KDCat

I'd feel like I was under a microscope with the Crimson, the nationals and the administration all looking at me.

And ^that’s why. I wouldn’t want my daughter to be fodder for the press, especially for those interested in manufacturing a sensational story regardless of the outcome. The article linked at the beginning of this thread is a tabloid-type example of how some continue to milk the controversy:

University Of Alabama’s Sororities Still Resist Integrating
Seven months after allegations of racism were raised, little has changed.

What exactly should have changed since last fall (that hasn’t) to deliver Bama sororities from segregation? In what ways are sororities "resisting?"

Originally Posted by KDCat

I'd feel like I was only being pledged because I was black and not because the sorority really wanted me. I'd feel like my bid was given grudgingly. I'd feel like I was a token member who was giving the chapter(s) cover for being as racist as they wanna be.

Certainly understandable, though according to the media coverage, actives in identified sororities did want a particular AA member. The other girls who accepted bids must have felt the offer was sincere, otherwise, why would they accept?

Originally Posted by KDCat

In the second article posted to this thread, an AA PNM said that she chose to join AKA over an NPC sorority because she didn't feel entirely welcome at NPC sororities. I totally get that and I'd feel the same as her in that situation.

She did not elect to participate in any NPC recruitment, yet takes a swipe at the sororities offering her a bid. If anything, her assumption that she would be “criticized and ostracized” is just divisive speculation – she essentially spit on the chapters who extended an offer. And then she joined a segregated AA sorority:

UA sophomore Khortlan Patterson, a black woman from Houston, was offered multiple bids to join Alabama’s traditionally white Panhellenic sororities but turned them down. “I don’t want to pay $6,000 a year to get criticized and ostracized,” Patterson said. “I don’t want to pay money to be a part of that.”
Instead, Patterson pledged Alpha Kappa Alpha, the first historically African-American sorority. She considered joining a Panhellenic chapter in order to push change from the inside, but ultimately, Patterson decided it would have been more of a trial than an opportunity.

I think Miss Patterson is more interested in media attention than promoting change. Her words will certainly not encourage other AA women to pursue NPC membership.

Originally Posted by KDCat

I don't think the system will ever completely integrate and I don't think that should be our goal.

I’m still trying to figure out what “completely integrate” means. What does it mean? At what threshold will a chapter be considered integrated?

I can’t think of a more favorable situation for a minority PNM to receive a bid from a historically white sorority than UofA rush this fall. And I can’t think of a more UNfavorable situation for PNMs and chapters in terms of media and administrative attention than UofA rush this fall.

It may be a very stressful fall recruitment for all concerned. If the chapters offer a bid to an AA PNM, they face accusations of “tokenism.” If they release an AA PNM, they face accusations of racism. The AA PNMs face the prospect of scrutiny by onlookers (administrative and otherwise) and unwanted attention by those seeking a story.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

It's about deciding to make an effort to meet people outside your regular group of friends and finding women of other ethnic groups that would make good members because they may expand the experience of your chapter. The benefits of such an approach are the same as when a chapter chooses to select for any other trait such as academics, dancing ability, singing ability, appearance, etc.

So would another good reason to select a woman be because her brother is a member of Popular PQR and the chapter can finally get a mixer with them and "expand their experience"? This sounds like "we need to win intramurals so give Sporty Sue a bid, even if we like someone else more."

And I don't know about anyone else, but I would be offended as hell to feel I was chosen for a bid solely to "expand the experience." Not only that, the assumption that an A- A member (especially one from the same region/socio-economic background) will provide that is rather hilarious.

[AOII Angel]

You are finding every reason to oppose the use of COB to improve diversity with no real basis. Do you actually advise any chapters in a position to COB? If you qualified your statement that it may not always be a good time, I'd take it, but you didn't. You completely threw out COB like offering bids to minorities during COB would somehow always lead to tokenism. The discussion has been how to lead all NPC chapters to a more diverse position, not just Univ of Alabama. There are MANY campuses where COB actually does work to improve diversity in chapters. Your argument has no basis. An AA member should no more feel upset that she is valued for the experiences she will bring to a chapter than a white member because she's Polly Popular and will bring all the boys to the yard. There is always a reason why a member is selected. Pretending otherwise is naive.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

She did not elect to participate in any NPC recruitment, yet takes a swipe at the sororities offering her a bid. If anything, her assumption that she would be “criticized and ostracized” is just divisive speculation – she essentially spit on the chapters who extended an offer. And then she joined a segregated AA sorority:

No. No. No.

[AZTheta]

^^^^ What DBB said times a bajillion. And also, in response to the "media attention" paragraph.

It's too early for popcorn, isn't it?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

There is always a reason why a member is selected. Pretending otherwise is naive.

Not advising, but spent my college career in a chapter that pretty much always COBed. And the reason why we offered women bids (including several minority women) was because we liked them and thought they'd both give something to the chapter AND get something from it. Not because of a certain trait they possessed, but who they were overall. If that makes me and my sisters naive, thank God we're naive.

What KDCat seemed to be saying that I objected to was "ask all your black friends to COB events and not your white friends. " If it takes COBing to get chapter members to make friends with people of another race, that's their failing as humans, not as sorority members.

[Low D Flat]

Your experience? You said you weren't even Greek.

That's right. I'm a higher ed professional. You don't need to be Greek to see who has joined where on campuses where you live and work. The topic here isn't chapter operations, voting, etc. Do you disagree with anything I've observed?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

...a segregated AA sorority:

Stuff like this is why this thread is just back-and-forth nonsense.

I think HartofSEC is one of the people in the older thread who claimed not to notice or be concerned with race because "she's a sister".

[AZTheta]

I'm making room on the sofa.

[Hartofsec]

Miss Patterson made other assumptions as well regarding how she would be treated in these chapters:

“No one’s going to say flat out, ‘You can’t hang out with us because we don’t consider you to be our sister.’ But I think that in their actions it would probably be communicated in that way.”

I feel that her disparaging comments and assumptions are quite discouraging to potential AA PNMs. And I don't see the value of that in any effort to foster diversity in traditionally white sororities. It will attract media attention, however, and plaster one's condemning quote in size 48 font across a picture of sorority row.

As I was reading, I was reminded of Kimberly Dandridge. If two states and Greek systems might be depicted as similar -- it is these two. Miss Dandridge has been able to speak about the challenges of being an AA PNM, and also about her experience within her chapter and on her campus. Her experience may inspire future AA PNMs rather than frighten them away.

[DrPhil]

AZTheta: No need for that. Nothing groundbreaking and profound happening in this thread.

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

No, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t want to be her mother either.



And ^that’s why. I wouldn’t want my daughter to be fodder for the press, especially for those interested in manufacturing a sensational story regardless of the outcome. The article linked at the beginning of this thread is a tabloid-type example of how some continue to milk the controversy:


What exactly should have changed since last fall (that hasn’t) to deliver Bama sororities from segregation? In what ways are sororities "resisting?"




Certainly understandable, though according to the media coverage, actives in identified sororities did want a particular AA member. The other girls who accepted bids must have felt the offer was sincere, otherwise, why would they accept?



She did not elect to participate in any NPC recruitment, yet takes a swipe at the sororities offering her a bid. If anything, her assumption that she would be “criticized and ostracized” is just divisive speculation – she essentially spit on the chapters who extended an offer. And then she joined a segregated AA sorority:


I think Miss Patterson is more interested in media attention than promoting change. Her words will certainly not encourage other AA women to pursue NPC membership.



I’m still trying to figure out what “completely integrate” means. What does it mean? At what threshold will a chapter be considered integrated?

I can’t think of a more favorable situation for a minority PNM to receive a bid from a historically white sorority than UofA rush this fall. And I can’t think of a more UNfavorable situation for PNMs and chapters in terms of media and administrative attention than UofA rush this fall.

It may be a very stressful fall recruitment for all concerned. If the chapters offer a bid to an AA PNM, they face accusations of “tokenism.” If they release an AA PNM, they face accusations of racism. The AA PNMs face the prospect of scrutiny by onlookers (administrative and otherwise) and unwanted attention by those seeking a story.

"Completely integrate" = AA women rush and are bid in numbers representative of their percentage of the campus population. My previous point about that was that I think it's better to look at total percentages of AA women served by both NPC sororities and by historically AA sororities and multicultural societies.

Please don't bag on AKA. When white students present themselves as PNMS and are being excluded from AKA because of their race, AKA can deal with that problem then. In this case, NPC sororities at Alabama excluded AA PNMs because of their skin color. That's not fair. That's not in compliance with our current membership selection standards. We need to get into compliance with our own standards.

NOT being in compliance with our own standards is what caused this problem. If one particular AA PNM talked some stuff about our chapters, we pretty much had it coming for not living up to the standards we have set for ourselves.

[KDCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Not advising, but spent my college career in a chapter that pretty much always COBed. And the reason why we offered women bids (including several minority women) was because we liked them and thought they'd both give something to the chapter AND get something from it. Not because of a certain trait they possessed, but who they were overall. If that makes me and my sisters naive, thank God we're naive.

What KDCat seemed to be saying that I objected to was "ask all your black friends to COB events and not your white friends. " If it takes COBing to get chapter members to make friends with people of another race, that's their failing as humans, not as sorority members.

Nope. Not what I said.

It doesn't hurt to push your chapter members to to ask AA women to COB. If you don't think about recruiting diverse candidates, it often doesn't happen - not at work and not in sororities. That doesn't mean you don't include other candidates as well.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by KDCat

When white students present themselves as PNMS and are being excluded from AKA because of their race, AKA can deal with that problem then.

And it is NOT equivalent. Setting aside the fact that there are indeed white women in AKA, people in the historically oppressed group are entitled to spaces of their own. AKA is not obligated to integrate at any point in order for NPC groups to be a problem.

[DrPhil]

The fact that HartofSEC needs to be schooled on that proves my point from pages ago. No matter how NPC recruits, the majority of NPC chapters will not get more nonwhite members because of issues with the overall culture. When that culture changes, only then will diverse recruitment efforts possibly result in an increase in nonwhites.