Chick-fil-a Support Day and Free Speech

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I never did say gays have not been oppressed. My issue is when White gays want to act like they've been oppressed to the same extent as AfAm in the US.

I don't see why you're not understanding. See below:

Originally Posted by pshsx1

An oppressed minority is still an oppressed minority. We're not having a dick measuring contest about who's had it worse.

And I believe that PiKA or MysticCat said that you have absolutely no idea what hardships an individual has been through. How much actual hate and oppression have you experienced? This isn't the time that we talk about our ancestors who were chained up on the boat and our grandparents who faced the hoses in the South; this is about us, right now.

Hell, if we really want to play in the Oppression Olympics, let's talk about Native Americans, shall we?

So, for the last time, stop bringing up the "fact" that the LGBTQ community hasn't had it as hard as the African-American community. (since you love this face so much)


Anyway, the ultimate point of this conversation is that if you went to Chick-Fil-A for food, especially on Huckabee Appreciation Day, you are supporting homophobia, heterosexism, and heterocentrism. Congrats.

Saving you a Google trip:
Heterocentrism - the societal ideology that heterosexuality is normal, better, and expected.
Heterosexism - a system of oppression that assumes all people are heterosexual
Homophobia - the fear, hatred, or discomfort with individuals who do not identify as heterosexual

[SWTXBelle]

http://www.perrynoble.com/2012/08/01...46965925417366

"It simply needs to be pointed out that people on both sides of this argument have been way less than civil with each other…which does nothing more than proves the insecurity in us if we feel like we have to “lower the boom” on people who do not see exactly as we see. Honestly, it is my prayer that people on both sides of the argument would stop yelling at each other and talking about one another and actually sit down and talk to one another understanding that just because two people do not agree on an issue does not mean they have the right to hate one another for it."

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Hell, if we really want to play in the Oppression Olympics, let's talk about Native Americans, shall we?

So, for the last time, stop bringing up the "fact" that the LGBTQ community hasn't had it as hard as the African-American community. (since you love this face so much)

Oh man, the Abuse Excuse. Boring. I didn't know people still played that game.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

I don't see why you're not understanding. See below:


And I believe that PiKA or MysticCat said that you have absolutely no idea what hardships an individual has been through. How much actual hate and oppression have you experienced? This isn't the time that we talk about our ancestors who were chained up on the boat and our grandparents who faced the hoses in the South; this is about us, right now.

Hell, if we really want to play in the Oppression Olympics, let's talk about Native Americans, shall we?

So, for the last time, stop bringing up the "fact" that the LGBTQ community hasn't had it as hard as the African-American community. (since you love this face so much)


Anyway, the ultimate point of this conversation is that if you went to Chick-Fil-A for food, especially on Huckabee Appreciation Day, you are supporting homophobia, heterosexism, and heterocentrism. Congrats.

Saving you a Google trip:
Heterocentrism - the societal ideology that heterosexuality is normal, better, and expected.
Heterosexism - a system of oppression that assumes all people are heterosexual
Homophobia - the fear, hatred, or discomfort with individuals who do not identify as heterosexual

Can I co-sign here? I think you should leave it at this, anything more with her will be beating a dead homophobic horse.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

How much actual hate and oppression have you experienced? This isn't the time that we talk about our ancestors who were chained up on the boat and our grandparents who faced the hoses in the South; this is about us, right now.

Why? If it weren't for their ability to survive those hardships then, then we would not be here now.

That is why I take it so personally.

I take it personally because I had grandparents and my own parents who lived in a segregated Jim Crow South. Did I personally experience the degree of hardships they did, no. But I was definitely educated and understood what happened from their own personal experiences.

Hell, if we really want to play in the Oppression Olympics, let's talk about Native Americans, shall we?

We can. Because they have been truly oppressed. Its not about Oppression Olympics and who is going to win. Its about defining your own cause on your own terms, and not trying to piggy-back on someone else.

So, for the last time, stop bringing up the "fact" that the LGBTQ community hasn't had it as hard as the African-American community. (since you love this face so much)

I'll stop bringing it up when they stop using images of my heritage to push their agenda. Like I said, define your own agenda, use your own history in terms of the LGBTO community to help others understand why you are oppressed.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Why? If it weren't for their ability to survive those hardships then, then we would not be here now.

That is why I take it so personally.

I take it personally because I had grandparents and my own parents who lived in a segregated Jim Crow South. Did I personally experience the degree of hardships they did, no. But I was definitely educated and understood what happened from their own personal experiences.



We can. Because they have been truly oppressed. Its not about Oppression Olympics and who is going to win. Its about defining your own cause on your own terms, and not trying to piggy-back on someone else.



I'll stop bringing it up when they stop using images of my heritage to push their agenda. Like I said, define your own agenda, use your own history in terms of the LGBTO community to help others understand why you are oppressed.

What images or black civil rights piggy-backing do you keep babbling about? You do know there black and Latino gays, right? Are black gays supposed to have a separate but equal "agenda" than white gays?

I love how wanting equal rights is an "agenda" to you.

[SWTXBelle]

http://www.chick-fil-abowl.com/Givin...bleGiving.aspx

Chick-fil-a Bowl donations - HOW DARE THEY - giving to foster care, college and high school scholarships, Play It Smart, children's healthcare, the National Guard, hearing and sight restoration, the National Kidney Challenge, Schools of Niger and worst of all COLLEGE FOOTBALL. If only they spent their money in "more useful ways". They OBVIOUSLY MUST BE STOPPED.

Yes, I realize they support other causes which are controversial. I'm just tired of all the hyperbole - to hear many, ALL CFA does is support anti-same sex marriage.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

http://www.chick-fil-abowl.com/Givin...bleGiving.aspx

Chick-fil-a Bowl donations - HOW DARE THEY - giving to foster care, college and high school scholarships, Play It Smart, children's healthcare, the National Guard, hearing and sight restoration, the National Kidney Challenge, Schools of Niger and worst of all COLLEGE FOOTBALL. If only they spent their money in "more useful ways". They OBVIOUSLY MUST BE STOPPED.

Yes, I realize they support other causes which are controversial. I'm just tired of all the hyperbole - to hear many, ALL CFA does is support anti-same sex marriage.

Your point would be valid if the above causes didn't constitute a somewhat small percentage of CFA's charitable giving.

From reading that link and others, it's clear that while CFA does donate to sources which seem not to be linked to anti-gay causes, these constitute a very small percentage of its charitable giving. Schools of Niger and the Kidney Challenge only receive $10,000 each annually. On the other hand, FCA received $240,000 in a single year. FCA, which I didn't even realize until reading, focuses some of its efforts towards converting gays. It's also a huge supporter of Focus on the Family, which the SPLC deemed as a hate group.

Let's not act brand new here and pretend that CFA's efforts against gay marriage are only a small part of their charitable efforts or their culture. From looking at their charitable giving and their actions, it's a major part of their culture.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by agzg

So listen to this, you bigoted asshole. YOUR HATE FOR SEN WAS MADE APPARENT THE MOMENT YOU STEPPED ON CHICK-FIL-A'S PROPERTY IN SUPPORT OF THEIR BIGOTRY. You don't get to love him in spite of it. You don't get to love me in spite of my hardened heart - my heart is hardened against the injustice of jerks like you forcing your perverted view of Christianity on me and others.

You are the very definition of hypocrisy.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Wildcat2016

Also I have NEVER heard a gay person compare their plight to the trail or tears or slavery. I have myself, however, compared this MOVEMENT towards equal rights for homosexuals to the women's rights or black rights movements because they they are similar in that, 20 years down the road, when gays are finally allowed to marry and have their peace, my kids will learn about this in history books and wonder why it all took so long.

Absolutely. And for what it's worth, in college I learned that a lot of things are "the legacy of slavery," if you will, and perhaps it's hard for some people to compare the various movements because gay equality, women's equality, etc, wasn't necessarily born out of the legacy of slavery as the African American civil rights movement was.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

http://www.chick-fil-abowl.com/Givin...bleGiving.aspx

Chick-fil-a Bowl donations - HOW DARE THEY - giving to foster care, college and high school scholarships, Play It Smart, children's healthcare, the National Guard, hearing and sight restoration, the National Kidney Challenge, Schools of Niger and worst of all COLLEGE FOOTBALL. If only they spent their money in "more useful ways". They OBVIOUSLY MUST BE STOPPED.

This is not about where CFA gives that isn't harmful. We all donate to places which aren't harmful.

If the neighborhood pimp gives silver dollars to kids at Christmas, he is still a pimp.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Your point would be valid if the above causes didn't constitute a somewhat small percentage of CFA's charitable giving.

From reading that link and others, it's clear that while CFA does donate to sources which seem not to be linked to anti-gay causes, these constitute a very small percentage of its charitable giving. Schools of Niger and the Kidney Challenge only receive $10,000 each annually. On the other hand, FCA received $240,000 in a single year. FCA, which I didn't even realize until reading, focuses some of its efforts towards converting gays. It's also a huge supporter of Focus on the Family, which the SPLC deemed as a hate group.

Let's not act brand new here and pretend that CFA's efforts against gay marriage are only a small part of their charitable efforts or their culture. From looking at their charitable giving and their actions, it's a major part of their culture.

That, too.

[AOII Angel]

Jerry Sandusky used the Second Mile to do some really good things for a lot of kids...but he primarily did some very bad things. I think you'd have a hard time drawing the focus away from the bad things by pointing out the good. It doesn't cancel out the negatives in any way, shape or form.

[AlphaFrog]

Saw this on Facebook and thought about this thread. I cringed when I read it.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Let's not act brand new here and pretend that CFA's efforts against gay marriage are only a small part of their charitable efforts or their culture. From looking at their charitable giving and their actions, it's a major part of their culture.

Can you break this out for me?

Unless we basically say that any giving to a Christian organization or support for Christian values is assumed to be anti-gay, I'm not sure how you get there.

The figures I've seen say Winshape has about an 18 million dollar budget annually and that donations to outside suspect groups are around than five million since 2003.

And can you point me to what you read saying that FCA is anti-gay?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Can you break this out for me?

Unless we basically say that any giving to a Christian organization or support for Christian values is assumed to be anti-gay, I'm not sure how you get there.

The figures I've seen say Winshape has about an 18 million dollar budget annually and that donations to outside suspect groups are around than five million since 2003.

And can you point me to what you read saying that FCA is anti-gay?

The WinShape Foundation, which is CFA's charitable arm, has given money to several organizations with well-publicized anti-gay agendas, including but not limited to: Exodus International, Focus on the Family, the Eagle Forum, and the Family Research Council. All of these organizations have been vocal in their anti-gay rhetoric; several of them are listed with the SPLC as anti-gay hate groups. I specifically listed those, and not some of the missions (like Schools of Niger), which may be generally ecumenical in scope.

Typically I'd try to find a link from a more neutral source, but Equality Matters actually included a PDF of WinShape's IRS forms so I think that's as unbiased as it gets. This document indicates approximately 1.9 million donated to specific groups in 2009; the numbers were the same for 2009:

http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001

Here's a link to an article about how a coach supported by FCA was able to pray her gay away:
http://www.fca.org/vsItemDisplay.lsp...BA41A7675B0760

The application that one completes in order to become an FCA leader includes a statement that one will refrain from homosexual acts. (They could have simply said sex outside of marriage, but they specifically included homosexuality. Strange.)

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

The WinShape Foundation, which is CFA's charitable arm, has given money to several organizations with well-publicized anti-gay agendas, including but not limited to: Exodus International, Focus on the Family, the Eagle Forum, and the Family Research Council. All of these organizations have been vocal in their anti-gay rhetoric; several of them are listed with the SPLC as anti-gay hate groups. I specifically listed those, and not some of the missions (like Schools of Niger), which may be generally ecumenical in scope.

Typically I'd try to find a link from a more neutral source, but Equality Matters actually included a PDF of WinShape's IRS forms so I think that's as unbiased as it gets. This document indicates approximately 1.9 million donated to specific groups in 2009; the numbers were the same for 2009:

http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001

Here's a link to an article about how a coach supported by FCA was able to pray her gay away:
http://www.fca.org/vsItemDisplay.lsp...BA41A7675B0760

The application that one completes in order to become an FCA leader includes a statement that one will refrain from homosexual acts. (They could have simply said sex outside of marriage, but they specifically included homosexuality. Strange.)

Even granting that all groups labeled by Equality Matters are anti-gay, we still end up with the majority of Winshape's spending going to other efforts removed from that agenda. (I think the total budget was 17-18 million. You can see the complete tax form with the internal spending on their own programs for retreats, scholarships, camps, foster care, etc too.)

Again, my point isn't to say to people who want to boycott that hey, only 2/17 of your money goes to anti-gay stuff. My point is just say that it's hard to see anti-gay giving as Chick-fil-a's primary charity or agenda. I wouldn't even say major part of their agenda. I'm actually kind of hopeful that they'll reevaluate if there are pro-family groups they can work with without the hateful baggage.

And that's without even looking at any local giving or supports by store owners of local schools, sports, etc, which is more the stuff that I'm familiar with.