Is hazing the best way?

[djpsk21]

In all honesty, too many people posting are focusing on the minute details instead of answering the overarching question being asked. I don't feel I have to really explain my position because in all honesty, it shouldn't make a difference. I am trying to help my chapter change to become more risk adverse and create a more positive atmosphere....

but, since "my position" and "my authority" seems to be the focus of conversation, here it is:

I am new to this chapter, recent transfer
I never went through hazing so the concept, though I knew it existed, it new to me
After transferring in and talking to the brothers, some of the members realized the
need for change
I was elected, by the chapter, to the role of what some would consider "pledge
master" in hopes that I could help revitalize the progrm
Enough of the chapter wants to see change that they gave me their vote of
confidence
I am seeking help from as many resources as possible because I see an opportunity
here to help this chapter start new traditions.
No, the Nationals has NOT stepped in...this is a chapter initiative (different, right?)
Yes, they have been contacted and advise is being given
Yes, i am on the chat...for the umpteenth time, looking for advice from others.

So, I will ask yet again for advice or examples of how a good "pledge process" or a "new member program" is run. I was hoping this forum could help to generate ideas...not only for my chapter to use but other groups to use as well. What WORKED when you were pledging? What good team building exercises have YOU experienced that were effective...not necessarily with your Greek organization?

I would ask that we stop side tracking ourselves with the unimportant details of who I am, what my position is, the question of my "authority", etc. Rather, let us focus on ideas that can help improve a new member process as this is truly a golden opportunity to fix a broken system.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

In all honesty, too many people posting are focusing on the minute details instead of answering the overarching question being asked. I don't feel I have to really explain my position because in all honesty, it shouldn't make a difference. I am trying to help my chapter change to become more risk adverse and create a more positive atmosphere....

but, since "my position" and "my authority" seems to be the focus of conversation, here it is:

I am new to this chapter, recent transfer
I never went through hazing so the concept, though I knew it existed, it new to me
After transferring in and talking to the brothers, some of the members realized the
need for change
I was elected, by the chapter, to the role of what some would consider "pledge
master" in hopes that I could help revitalize the progrm
Enough of the chapter wants to see change that they gave me their vote of
confidence
I am seeking help from as many resources as possible because I see an opportunity
here to help this chapter start new traditions.
No, the Nationals has NOT stepped in...this is a chapter initiative (different, right?)
Yes, they have been contacted and advise is being given
Yes, i am on the chat...for the umpteenth time, looking for advice from others.

So, I will ask yet again for advice or examples of how a good "pledge process" or a "new member program" is run. I was hoping this forum could help to generate ideas...not only for my chapter to use but other groups to use as well. What WORKED when you were pledging? What good team building exercises have YOU experienced that were effective...not necessarily with your Greek organization?

I would ask that we stop side tracking ourselves with the unimportant details of who I am, what my position is, the question of my "authority", etc. Rather, let us focus on ideas that can help improve a new member process as this is truly a golden opportunity to fix a broken system.

I appreciated hearing the details because it give me some context. Your position DOES matter, because you are coming into a chapter and suggesting big changes to the program. Typically, pledge/new member programs are developed before the new class arrives. I'm sure it's a surprise to many of us that you are suggesting changes mid-semester.

The bottom line is that what works for other fraternities and sororities and even among different chapters of the same organization, might not work for your chapter.

We each have different ideals, chapter history, and ways of doing things. I would gather that no two pledge programs are exactly the same, even in the strictest I/National organization.

This is really something that you need to discuss with members and advisers of YOUR chapter. There really isn't much we, the general population of GC can tell you in terms of what will work for your chapter. Create a committee of older and newer actives. Poll all members on what worked well during their pledge period, and what didn't, and why. You can do it anonymously so that people don't worry about towing a different line.

Only when others can agree on what doesn't work and why, can you all agree on changing things around. It can take several years for sweeping changes, so be patient. Keep everyone in the loop. A fraternity takes more than one man.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

In all honesty, too many people posting are focusing on the minute details instead of answering the overarching question being asked.

So, I will ask yet again for advice or examples of how a good "pledge process" or a "new member program" is run. I was hoping this forum could help to generate ideas...not only for my chapter to use but other groups to use as well.

I would ask that we stop side tracking ourselves with the unimportant details of who I am, what my position is, the question of my "authority", etc. Rather, let us focus on ideas that can help improve a new member process as this is truly a golden opportunity to fix a broken system.

He has the audacity to think he can tell Greekchat what to do, so he probably takes this approach with his NEW chapter (that is not even his chapter of initiation) and will probably fail miserably because of it.

This is HIS chapter of HIS organization and he's inadequate enough to need stranger nonmembers' advice. Yet HE thinks he can direct the conversation. Yeah I think he needs to contact his national headquarters and/or members from other chapters. They are the only ones who should care enough to help his chapter and help his chapter IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ORGANIZATION'S GUIDELINES.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

He has the audacity to think he can tell Greekchat what to do, so he probably takes this approach with his NEW chapter (that is not even his chapter of initiation) and will probably fail miserably because of it.

This is HIS chapter of HIS organization and he's inadequate enough to need stranger nonmembers' advice. Yet HE thinks he can direct the conversation. Yeah I think he needs to contact his national headquarters and/or members from other chapters. They are the only ones who should care enough to help his chapter and help his chapter IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ORGANIZATION'S GUIDELINES.

Or he could keep asking here since plenty of people do appear to care enough to help him.

Also, although he objected to the inquiry, he also explained the details that people were asking for. Not outrageous audacity really.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Or he could keep asking here since plenty of people do appear to care enough to help him.

Also, although he objected to the inquiry, he also explained the details that people were asking for.

Did members of his organization not care enough to help him or did he not try?

Yeah...he explained those "unimportant details" that keep "sidetracking" GCers.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Did members of his organization not care enough to help him or did he not try?

Yeah...he explained those "unimportant details" that keep "sidetracking" GCers.

Oh no, I'm so offended. He appears to have exactly the amount of authority he claimed, and nothing more or less.

And I don't really care what he does with his organization, you do however appear to be the only one objecting to his inquiry here.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Oh no, I'm so offended.

Yeah it's horrible that a transfer who was given the "authority" to handle this task is seeking advice on GC.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

you do however appear to be the only one objecting to his inquiry here.

Not really. But, to keep GC fun, threads don't have to go a certain way and GCers don't require a team in order to express an opinion. The best way for OPs not to receive a range of opinions is to not present the issue in the first place.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And I don't really care what he does with his organization

Some care and others don't. As usual, I'm addressing a topic that has little to do specifically with the OP. We wouldn't have much discussion on GC if everything boiled down to "caring" about the OP himself/herself.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And I don't really care what he does with his organization, you do however appear to be the only one objecting to his inquiry here.

Seriously? I had to go back and read the thread again. I saw more than one objection disguised as humorous or sarcastic remarks.

What I found disturbing is his disdain for the "unimportant details", which seemed very important to the original question. This thread may have taken a different course and been half as long if those details had been provided earlier (especially the one about his position.)

In any case it seems to me his question has been answered and re-answered. At this point I don't know what he is looking for unless it is for someone to detail their own Intake process. And if someone does that...

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Seriously? I had to go back and read the thread again. I saw more than one objection disguised as humorous or sarcastic remarks.

What I found disturbing is his disdain for the "unimportant details", which seemed very important to the original question. This thread may have taken a different course and been half as long if those details had been provided earlier (especially the one about his position.)

In any case it seems to me his question has been answered and re-answered. At this point I don't know what he is looking for unless it is for someone to detail their own Intake process. And if someone does that...

I agree that his question's been answered, and to be fair I only scrolled down through the posts that appeared under the reply box, so my own laziness I suppose.

I just find it to be overkill.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

I never went through hazing so the concept, though I knew it existed, it new to me

It looks like the OP is already familiar with a non-hazing program that works (HIS OWN). That, along with his national rules and procedures, should give him enough to come up with something for the new chapter.

Team building exercises can be found online or at a university's leadership center. GLO specific information can come from members of other chapters of the OP's GLO.

I'm not sure what else he wants from us.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

It looks like the OP is already familiar with a non-hazing program that works (HIS OWN). That, along with his national rules and procedures, should give him enough to come up with something for the new chapter.

Team building exercises can be found online or at a university's leadership center. GLO specific information can come from members of other chapters of the OP's GLO.

I'm not sure what else he wants from us.

My guess is the difficulty, in any similar situation not just the OP's, is selling it to a previously hazing chapter. If they're still stuck on "but we went through it" and "must break them down and build them up" or whatever, it's much harder to sell anything that doesn't include those concepts. We know it's possible to have a pledge/NM period without hazing, and so does the OP, but the chapter has to learn that it's still 'ok.'

The OP's suggestions of 'toned down' activities (which were at least borderline hazing by most standards) suggest that the hazing was pretty strong and that the chapter doesn't want to let it go.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

It looks like the OP is already familiar with a non-hazing program that works (HIS OWN). That, along with his national rules and procedures, should give him enough to come up with something for the new chapter.

Team building exercises can be found online or at a university's leadership center. GLO specific information can come from members of other chapters of the OP's GLO.

I'm not sure what else he wants from us.

I agree. Perhaps his own non-hazing program wasn't adequate enough to use in its entirety or to take parts of. In that case, I wonder what it is about his opinions and his experiences that led them to give him the "authority."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

The bottom line is that what works for other fraternities and sororities and even among different chapters of the same organization, might not work for your chapter.

We each have different ideals, chapter history, and ways of doing things. I would gather that no two pledge programs are exactly the same, even in the strictest I/National organization.

This is really something that you need to discuss with members and advisers of YOUR chapter. There really isn't much we, the general population of GC can tell you in terms of what will work for your chapter. Create a committee of older and newer actives. Poll all members on what worked well during their pledge period, and what didn't, and why. You can do it anonymously so that people don't worry about towing a different line.

I agree that he needs to do the things that you suggest. But I fail to see how nothing can be learned from what other chapters do. I fail to see why it's so terrible to at least look at things have worked in other chapters and them evaluate whether those things, or something inspired by those things, would work in his chapter.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is HIS chapter of HIS organization and he's inadequate enough to need stranger nonmembers' advice. Yet HE thinks he can direct the conversation. Yeah I think he needs to contact his national headquarters and/or members from other chapters. They are the only ones who should care enough to help his chapter and help his chapter IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ORGANIZATION'S GUIDELINES.

Just because that's how it would be done in your organization does not mean it can't be done differently in other organizations.

Unless his organization discourages it, I simply don't see anything wrong with looking everywhere possible for ideas.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

It looks like the OP is already familiar with a non-hazing program that works (HIS OWN). That, along with his national rules and procedures, should give him enough to come up with something for the new chapter.

. . .

I'm not sure what else he wants from us.

He wants to hear the experiences of those who have been in a chapter when it moved from hazing to not hazing -- something he doesn't have personal experience with because his chapter of initiation was already non-hazing.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Just because that's how it would be done in your organization does not mean it can't be done differently in other organizations.

Uh huh and that can be said for 90% of the threads on GC in which people express general opinions that are specifically based on their organization.

The OP shouldn't be on GC typing to nonmembers if he only wants responses that cater to his organization. And the OP asked about others' intake experiences so he certainly wanted nonmembers' opinions and what was done in other organizations to potentially apply. What he asked for doesn't conveniently go away just because I'm applying my organizational experiences differently than the OP intended.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Unless his organization discourages it, I simply don't see anything wrong with looking everywhere possible for ideas.

And, for the sake of redundancy, I do see something wrong with it.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

He wants to hear the experiences of those who have been in a chapter when it moved from hazing to not hazing.

If that's what he specifically requested, I hope people are careful if they share their stories. I wonder if some of his fraternity brothers that he spoke to outside of GC have been more detailed about their experiences.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

huh and that can be said for 90% of the threads on GC in which people express general opinions that are specifically based on their organization.

The OP shouldn't be on GC typing to nonmembers if he only wants responses that cater to his organization. And the OP asked about others' intake experiences so he certainly wanted nonmembers' opinions and what was done in other organizations to potentially apply. What he asked for doesn't conveniently go away just because I'm applying my organizational experiences differently than the OP intended.

Of course it can be said of most of the threads and posts here. That's beside the point. The point I'm making is that it serves no purpose to apply the standards or practices of our own organization to someone else unless that other person's org shares those standards or policies.

I just see no reason for criticizing the guy just because a member of your org wouldn't or shouldn't ask a similar question.

And, for the sake of redundancy, I do see something wrong with it.

Obviously. And for equal redundancy, I see nothing with the question, but I do see something wrong with holding a poster to the standards of an organization of which he's not a member.

Because I know how much you love the phrase, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.