Understanding Black Patriotism

[shinerbock]

Although I'm not a fan, I think this is reasonable. I do have a some concerns about this line of reasoning (not really race related), however.

The idea that "lapel-pin" patriotism is somehow less "robust" is concerning. Plenty of us are outwardly proud to be a part of this country, and yet are still willing to subject our nation to scrutiny. While I suspect Dyson probably intended that comment to refer narrowly to the "blind" support he mentions later, I think it is somewhat reflective of an elitist condescension concerning traditional displays of patriotism. It is one thing to think "These colors don't run!!!!" shirts at a NASCAR race are somewhat humorous, and another to cringe every time someone expresses a more affirmative expression of love for this country (one that isn't necessarily tinged with criticism). I hope this doesn't pertain to Dyson, but I know for certain in describes a significant portion of liberal academia.

Regarding Obama, I find his view of this country somewhat disconcerting. I certainly have no quarrel with his assertion about America's perfection. That said, his focus on "progress" is troubling for people who believe that "progressive" policies are anything but. I'm not necessarily saying this is unpatriotic, because I have little doubt that his desire for change results from his affection for America. But if your love for America is arguably contingent upon a vision of "progress" that many find dangerous, we may soon find a country of adverse patriots.

Sorry if this has gone too far off topic for the thread starter. I just had to bring in a couple of other things to really convey how I felt about this sentiment.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Although I'm not a fan

A fan of what or who?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

A fan of what or who?

Well of a lot of things, but I was referring to Dyson.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

...But if your love for America is arguably contingent upon a vision of "progress" that many find dangerous, we may soon find a country of adverse patriots.

...you did say "arguably," so I'll ask you to expound -- how do you arrive at the conclusion that Obama's love of country is somehow "contingent" on progress? It seems to me that Obama's thesis has been that despite its halting dance with race relations, he yet finds the nation enobling, becuase it's given him the advantage and opportunity he enjoys today.

...also, as to your "contingency" argument, if this were the case, are you suggesting that would somehow be wrong, or "less than" any other expression of love of country?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

...you did say "arguably," so I'll ask you to expound -- how do you arrive at the conclusion that Obama's love of country is somehow "contingent" on progress? It seems to me that Obama's thesis has been that despite its halting dance with race relations, he yet finds the nation enobling, becuase it's given him the advantage and opportunity he enjoys today.

...also, as to your "contingency" argument, if this were the case, are you suggesting that would somehow be wrong, or "less than" any other expression of love of country?

Hey sorry I didn't get around to this until now.

Your assessment of Obama may be exactly correct. I don't really arrive at any conclusions, I have no idea what Barack's motivations are or how sincere his affection is.

But, I think it is reasonably valid for people to wonder about his love for this country when he's so focused on progressive politics. Actually, this is true for any far left "progressive," not just Obama. I think we all look at America, or should, and see things that could make the country better. But if you're someone who possesses arguably-radical ideas about what America should be, and most of your expressions of affection refer to that, people who love America the way it is may question that.

Ideally we'd all look at slavery or racial discrimination and recognize that shifting away from these things, or at least making strides in the latter, are good changes that have made America better. But is infringing on the free market good? That is a lot more disputable. Both sides are presumably patriotic, they just love America for different reasons. So yeah, I think it is reasonable for someone to say "well, do you love America now, or do you just love the progress we've made and what you think it'll be like after?" I wouldn't say that is my view of Obama, but people who are staunchly opposed to his vision of America are likely to ask such questions.

Lets say he does only really love what America could be, is that less patriotic? I dunno, patriotism is something I have trouble wrapping my brain around. I certainly would adamantly disagree with him, but there are plenty of patriots who I think would destroy America. Personally I'm not really concerned about his patriotism, it is much too broad a concept. I don't really care if he loves his country if i think his vision of that country is fundamentally opposed to mine.

[Tom Earp]

It see that many do not know history?

Blacks fought on both sides of the Civil War.
Blacks became known as buffalo soldiers as the protected the West duiring the Indian Wars.

Harrys S Truman edicted that Blacks in WWII were able to finght and have equal rights in the Military.

The Tuskagee Air Men were one of the most highly decorated fighting squardrons in WWII.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

It see that many do not know history?

Blacks fought on both sides of the Civil War.
Blacks became known as buffalo soldiers as the protected the West duiring the Indian Wars.

Harrys S Truman edicted that Blacks in WWII were able to finght and have equal rights in the Military.

The Tuskagee Air Men were one of the most highly decorated fighting squardrons in WWII.

A lot of people know this but it doesn't change this discussion.